FIFA World Cup

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TomViolenz
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Re: FIFA World Cup

Post by TomViolenz » Wed Jul 09, 2014 11:43 pm

ouw, that was boring!

Which of course doesn't mean that it wasn't a good game, it just means that both teams were canceling each other out.
Top it up with both sides using a hyper careful, super defensive tactic and you get 120 min and a 0:0 to be decided in a penalty shoot out.

Both teams play a strategy very well that does not suite the German team:
Super defensive and waiting for slight mistakes to start quick counter attacks with their enormously talented strikers/offense.

We had the most difficulties with Algeria, which used a similar approach, albeit on a technicaly and tacticly much lower level. This will be tough!

But, I'm still glad that we got Argentina (even though I severly underestimated them) because of the above mentioned pseudo home advantage that might give us.

Lets hope we won't repeat the combination of 2010 where we both, the Dutch and us, lost to the later World Champion :x

So the other question is of course: Will the Netherlands repeat the beatings on the Brazilians in the game for 3rd place?! They are certainly wounded and the Dutch are more than capable!

eyeknow
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Re: FIFA World Cup

Post by eyeknow » Wed Jul 09, 2014 11:55 pm

I knew argentina was going to be there. I'm not sure how I knew, but I knew : :lol:

beatz01
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Re: FIFA World Cup

Post by beatz01 » Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:38 am

The lamest of the lame would be if Argentina would win by penalty shoot out.

Really, today was so boring and as both Netherlands and Argentina tried to play it super safe with apparently the shoot out intended they both deserve to loose.Germany at least showed the will and guts to PLAY and to work for their success.

Winning by shoot out is ridiculous lame.It's not what soccer was invented for.

eyeknow
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Re: FIFA World Cup

Post by eyeknow » Thu Jul 10, 2014 4:58 am

Thank gods you called it by it's real name :x :lol:

Seriously, I didn't get to watch any of it. Would it be terrible of me to ask why it was such a bad game compared others with the same score?

sporkles
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Re: FIFA World Cup

Post by sporkles » Thu Jul 10, 2014 5:45 am

Predictably boring. Both teams used the same strategy, which is 'do not lose'. Like Tom says, they simply cancelled each other out. Argentina looks a lot like Argentina in Italy 1990 in that respect, and they're now in the exact same situation: facing Germany in the final. (West Germany then). It'll be extremely interesting to see how this pans out.

I really feel that the Germans deserve this win; their current team is the culmination and refinement of what started eight-ish years ago, and they play so much like a unit: when they're attacking, the TEAM is attacking. In Argentina's case, if the opponent can take Messi out of the game, the entire offensive structure is broken down. With Di Maria out, they've lost a true key player - the one who could take advantage of the space around Messi. It's going to be interesting to see if the Germans are going to apply the same strategy as so many others: keeping one or two players on Messi constantly.

TomViolenz
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Re: FIFA World Cup

Post by TomViolenz » Thu Jul 10, 2014 9:06 am

sporkles wrote:Predictably boring. Both teams used the same strategy, which is 'do not lose'. Like Tom says, they simply cancelled each other out. Argentina looks a lot like Argentina in Italy 1990 in that respect, and they're now in the exact same situation: facing Germany in the final. (West Germany then). It'll be extremely interesting to see how this pans out.

I really feel that the Germans deserve this win; their current team is the culmination and refinement of what started eight-ish years ago, and they play so much like a unit: when they're attacking, the TEAM is attacking. In Argentina's case, if the opponent can take Messi out of the game, the entire offensive structure is broken down. With Di Maria out, they've lost a true key player - the one who could take advantage of the space around Messi. It's going to be interesting to see if the Germans are going to apply the same strategy as so many others: keeping one or two players on Messi constantly.
It all depends on how well our defense is going to play.
They have improved a lot since the Algeria game (not least of all because Lahm is back in his best and most important position as a right-outside defender).
But I don't think we yet have the security that the Dutch for instance had. (It's hard to say, because the only game in which this was tested was the France game and Benzema is not Messi).

On the other hand I think we have matured a lot since 2006 and even 2010 and have our emotions much better in check. So that something like the semi finals in 2010 against Spain, where we cracked under emotional pressure just like Brazil did two days ago (albeit not nearly as spectacularly :mrgreen: ), won't happen again.

I think we are the favorits to win this, but not because of the Brazil game (that was not us being awesome, but Brazil being horrible, horrible, h o r r i b l e ! ! !), but because of how we still won against Algeria decicively in the end and how we then afterwards managed to bring our A-game against France.
This gives me hope.

sporkles
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Re: FIFA World Cup

Post by sporkles » Thu Jul 10, 2014 10:29 am

I agree. I can't remember if I already mentioned this, but I find that neither the Portugal nor the Brazil game really tell us all that much about just how good Germany are this year. I think both matches were flukes caused by poor opposition rather than German brilliance. Neither of the matches in between, where the opposition was considerably stronger, impressed me too much.

Then again, Argentina's performance has been extraordinarily unimpressive. Every single of their games has been like Italy's victory over England: they've defended pretty well and scored just enough goals to beat the opponent. The strikers have underperformed completely, and if they'd lost Messi, in the same way that Brazil lost Neymar, they wouldn't be in the final, for sure. The fact that Di Maria is out is, like I mentioned, a great loss, because he is the one player who can produce chances when Messi is surrounded by opponents. I'm really disappointed in Augero, who is obviously out of shape and not entirely injury-free.

Maybe Sabella should give Gabriel Batistuta a call and have him step in? :lol:

TomViolenz
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Re: FIFA World Cup

Post by TomViolenz » Thu Jul 10, 2014 11:05 am

I think playing pretty and playing effective only rarely align.

So while non of the Argentina games looked good (it fooled me into so severely underestimating them), they were very effective.

They are in the finals because they absolutely deserve to be (the Dutch would have almost as much though).

And the German team as well, but not for the Portugal or Brazil games (I agree with you on them) but for the come back in the Ghana game, the collecting of the nerves and turn around in the Algeria game and the very safe and strategicaly good performance against France.

These are the sort of qualities we're gonna need against Argentina to win the world cup, and I think we have them this time :-)

sporkles
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Re: FIFA World Cup

Post by sporkles » Thu Jul 10, 2014 11:35 am

The only problem with winning the cup by playing a cynical, defense-oriented game, is that it doesn't win a lot of "neutral" spectators over. Historically, I'm an Argentina supporter, but I find the Germans a lot more entertaining now. I guess I'll root for whoever I feel deserves the title on sunday. Either way, I expect a match that looks more like yesterday's, and certainly no goal bonanza.

TomViolenz
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Re: FIFA World Cup

Post by TomViolenz » Sat Jul 12, 2014 6:33 pm

I'm actually excited for the game coming up tonight. I know there is really nothing to win for both teams anymore. But what makes it quite interesting, is that they have a lot to lose!

Brazil needs to show that they are not the punching ball of the big league teams and that it still belongs. There is A LOT of national pride to be rescued.

On the other hand the Dutch, in eternal competition to the Germans, will not want to be outdone by us and stake a claim to be top notch and that the loss in the semies was mostly bad luck. Sure they are not aiming for a 7:1, that was obviously a fluke, but they will want to show that they can also win decicively against an already wounded opponent. So nothing to win, will mean no overly cautious game, not being allowed to lose, may mean a full effort.

From a mental perspective this may turn out to be the most interesting game of the whole tournament.

The fact that both teams are trying to downplay the importance of the match in public underlines this IMO.

My prediction: 3:1 for the Dutch

TomViolenz
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Re: FIFA World Cup

Post by TomViolenz » Sat Jul 12, 2014 10:18 pm

Well, fuck me for believing the Dutch actually cared... :x

They played the same boring safety focused crap as in the last games. Actually taking speed out of enormously promising counter attacks for the safe pass back.... :roll:
I'm glad now that they are out and I start to understand the immense criticism the Dutch focused on Van Gaal before the tournament. This sort of playing turns casual watchers totally off. I really feel for Robben, because you often see what he could do, if the team order were to be just a little more offensive... :(

That the Dutch still won 3:0 just shows that the Brazilians actually are the punching bag for top teams at the moment. They should never have made it out of the group stage. Makes me wonder how good Colombia actually was, that they didn't manage with James to leave that incompetent defense in the dust...

What a pathetic waste of time this match tonight was, yuck :evil:

sporkles
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Re: FIFA World Cup

Post by sporkles » Sun Jul 13, 2014 10:36 am

So it's OK for Argentina to play defensively, but not for the Netherlands?

Either way, to the major football nations, the bronze final really doesn't matter, and van Gaal has been quite vocal that it shouldn't even be played. To me, though, it seemed as though the Dutch were genuinely happy when they scored and won.

derzai
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Re: FIFA World Cup

Post by derzai » Sun Jul 13, 2014 12:16 pm

sporkles wrote:So it's OK for Argentina to play defensively, but not for the Netherlands?

Either way, to the major football nations, the bronze final really doesn't matter, and van Gaal has been quite vocal that it shouldn't even be played. To me, though, it seemed as though the Dutch were genuinely happy when they scored and won.
Yep, we started the tournement with zero expectations, and for many of us we already succeeded after the match against Spain. I think the match against Brasil was a good match from the Dutch perspective. Okay, of course, for a "neutral" spectator it could have been called "boring" or "dreary", i dont know, i enjoyed the match.

One could start off against a team like Argentina with a 3-4-3 system, but then you, what we call, could walk "into a knife". Besides Messi, Argentina is a very good team, with an excellent defense, almost hermetic. And then, when Messi got the ball and you give him space.....

Ah, we will see.

Wish the Germans all the best.

derzai
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Re: FIFA World Cup

Post by derzai » Sun Jul 13, 2014 12:22 pm

Als Rudi Völler im Trainingsanzug zum Interview mit Waldemar Hartmann im Fernsehstudio der ARD aufschlägt, wenige Meter von der Kabine entfernt, ist er ohnehin nicht amüsiert. "Das Spiel war sicher alles andere als gut," sagte er dem Magazin "Rund" drei Jahre danach. "Aber wir brauchten diesen Punkt, um Gruppensieger zu werden. Und dann musst du auch mal mit einem 0:0 in Island zufrieden sein." Als er dann mitbekommt, dass Experte Günter Netzer und Moderator Gerhard Delling von einem Tiefpunkt sprechen und mit ironischem Unterton eine Krise der Fernsehunterhaltung am heiligen Samstagabend ausrufen, verliert Rudi Völler die Fassung und die Druckreife.


Die erste Frage beantwortet er noch einigermaßen ruhig, doch dann legt er los: "Immer diese Geschichte mit dem Tiefpunkt und noch 'nem Tiefpunkt, dann gibt's noch mal 'nen niedrigeren Tiefpunkt. Ich kann diesen Scheißdreck nicht mehr hören." Hartmann versucht zu erklären: "Was er sagen wollte ..." Aber Rudi Völler ist nicht mehr aufzuhalten. "So ein Käse, ich lass mir das nicht mehr bieten. Solche Sachen wie die vom Delling." Hartmann verweist darauf, dass das Spiel nun wirklich nicht gut war. Vergeblich. Nun geht es Schlag auf Schlag. "Käse. So einen Käse will ich nicht mehr hören. So'n Scheiß! Das ist das Allerletzte."

Hartmann will beschwichtigen: "Für die Kritik ist doch ihre Mannschaft der eigentliche Ansprechpartner." Völler räumt ein, dass sein Team zu wenig geboten hat. "Aber der Scheiß, der da immer gelabert wird. Da sollten sich wirklich alle mal Gedanken machen, ob wir in Zukunft so weitermachen können. Immer diese Geschichte. Alles in den Dreck ziehen, alles runterziehen. Ich halte das nicht mehr aus. Ihr müsst doch mal endlich vom hohen Ross runterkommen, was ihr euch immer alle einbildet, was wir für einen Fußball in Deutschland spielen müssen. Was hat denn der Günter früher für einen Scheiß gespielt? Standfußball war das doch früher. Alles in den Dreck zu ziehen ist für mich unterste Schublade."

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