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Discussion of anything not related to audio or music production
DEEMUSIC
Posts: 85
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2009 3:19 pm

Re: taylor pulled out

Post by DEEMUSIC » Tue Nov 04, 2014 7:50 pm

It looks like a good plan to put the artist on an hourly or a salary wage instead paying what they are worth. I'm for the small time artist all the way and they should get paid for there hard work but I can't help but wonder if this is a plan for the record companies to keep a larger share of the profit and I wonder who are the investors to these sites like spotify, don't get me wrong I like the idea of paying 10$ a month to listen to what I want but who is really getting paid here.

H20nly
Posts: 15838
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 9:15 pm
Location: The Wild West

Re: taylor pulled out

Post by H20nly » Tue Nov 04, 2014 7:53 pm

but who determines what they're worth and what about all the different ways music get written? would waiting for the heroine to show up or rolling a joint be considered part of the work or is there a time clock that has to get punched for a smoke break?

TomViolenz
Posts: 6854
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2010 6:19 pm

Re: taylor pulled out

Post by TomViolenz » Tue Nov 04, 2014 8:10 pm

You know in what system something like all you can listen to music services would work for all involved?!

Socialism 8)

There I said it! :mrgreen:

DEEMUSIC
Posts: 85
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2009 3:19 pm

Re: taylor pulled out

Post by DEEMUSIC » Tue Nov 04, 2014 8:14 pm

H20nly wrote:but who determines what they're worth and what about all the different ways music get written? would waiting for the heroine to show up or rolling a joint be considered part of the work or is there a time clock that has to get punched for a smoke break?

My point also and the music is not the same as to a artist who loves his/her craft to the person who just wants to be rich and famous.

ohigetbywithalittlehelpfrommyfriends
Posts: 407
Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2014 2:54 am

Re: taylor pulled out

Post by ohigetbywithalittlehelpfrommyfriends » Tue Nov 04, 2014 8:15 pm

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TomViolenz
Posts: 6854
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2010 6:19 pm

Re: taylor pulled out

Post by TomViolenz » Tue Nov 04, 2014 8:17 pm

^You are here for two days now and already think I'd do something, anything because of you?!

Get over yourself dude :roll:

ohigetbywithalittlehelpfrommyfriends
Posts: 407
Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2014 2:54 am

Re: taylor pulled out

Post by ohigetbywithalittlehelpfrommyfriends » Tue Nov 04, 2014 8:22 pm

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H20nly
Posts: 15838
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 9:15 pm
Location: The Wild West

Re: taylor pulled out

Post by H20nly » Tue Nov 04, 2014 8:23 pm

I think Taylor is a Republican

ohigetbywithalittlehelpfrommyfriends
Posts: 407
Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2014 2:54 am

Re: taylor pulled out

Post by ohigetbywithalittlehelpfrommyfriends » Tue Nov 04, 2014 8:24 pm

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BaronVonAbelDong
Posts: 108
Joined: Fri Apr 25, 2008 3:32 pm

Re: taylor pulled out

Post by BaronVonAbelDong » Tue Nov 04, 2014 8:38 pm

TomViolenz wrote:
Spotify wins and no one here will ever again be able to live of the music they sell.

Sure you can do concerts to earn a living, and for some that may work out well, but for most it won't.

This will be the end of the independent professional musician. You will either be absolute mainstream successful, or you will need a day job.

In the future you either listen to mainstream or to amateurs. There is no middle ground anymore. But hey, at least you can listen to soooooo much more of it for just 10 bucks/month. What a victory :roll:

1) What's stopping us from selling the 143 CD's needed to make a wage? Is it the fact that no one cares enough about what we create? Is it just not worth the purchase to most people? Do we not know how to sell them?

What's the reason that you didn't get excited by the stats... 'wow, only 143 CD's a month and I can keep food on my table!' Sounds pretty cool to me? Better/easier than a lot of other jobs no?

2) Rather than painting a negative picture of how you think things will end up, I would be really interested to hear a genuine solution to the situation. Other than socialism. : )

One that involves me being able to make enough money, from my releases, that I can survive on it, into old age, and also look for new music while in the bathtub and play any track, from anywhere, whenever I choose. :)

It would be great to hear your ideas, any and all of you, if you have time... as I have read 100's of posts and articles moaning about streaming and 'the future' killing any hopes and dreams of getting paid for making music... but no real, genuine solutions, not only for the artists but fans too.

It's an exciting time in music history, if you want it to be.

ohigetbywithalittlehelpfrommyfriends
Posts: 407
Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2014 2:54 am

Re: taylor pulled out

Post by ohigetbywithalittlehelpfrommyfriends » Tue Nov 04, 2014 8:47 pm

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BaronVonAbelDong
Posts: 108
Joined: Fri Apr 25, 2008 3:32 pm

Re: taylor pulled out

Post by BaronVonAbelDong » Tue Nov 04, 2014 8:55 pm

As someone that used to survive selling vinyl, my glass just about contains 10mm of warm sediment and a bit of spit.

But that doesn't mean there aren't other ways out there and it definitely doesn't mean it's not exciting times.

I couldn't care less what Taylor does. It's up to her... or her record label pimps. Her world and motivations has little genuine bearing or impact on most of our realities.

What was your motivation to start the thread?

Solely informational? Or did you have an opinion on how to move forward with earning money as music maker in 2014?

TomViolenz
Posts: 6854
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2010 6:19 pm

Re: taylor pulled out

Post by TomViolenz » Tue Nov 04, 2014 9:18 pm

BaronVonAbelDong wrote:
TomViolenz wrote:
Spotify wins and no one here will ever again be able to live of the music they sell.

Sure you can do concerts to earn a living, and for some that may work out well, but for most it won't.

This will be the end of the independent professional musician. You will either be absolute mainstream successful, or you will need a day job.

In the future you either listen to mainstream or to amateurs. There is no middle ground anymore. But hey, at least you can listen to soooooo much more of it for just 10 bucks/month. What a victory :roll:

1) What's stopping us from selling the 143 CD's needed to make a wage? Is it the fact that no one cares enough about what we create? Is it just not worth the purchase to most people? Do we not know how to sell them?

What's the reason that you didn't get excited by the stats... 'wow, only 143 CD's a month and I can keep food on my table!' Sounds pretty cool to me? Better/easier than a lot of other jobs no?
Certainly, if you still manage to find people in the future to buy CDs (or digital whole albums) at all that might work. But that's the issue though, isn't it?! Positions voiced even in this thread indicate that this might be an uphill battle. And that is on a forum of musicians!!!
Everyone seems to think signing up to Spotify and paying 10 bucks a month absolves them from paying anything more.
In so far the whole "Spotify is a way to advertise for unknown acts" is a scam. If you advertise you normaly advertise for something, that you can then sell later.
But Spotify for most people is already the product, in their opinion they paid their dues. The few cents you get from them is all you'll ever get.

The consumer is not gonna rescue music here, they think they finally get what's just. Conflating mainstream superstars and their riches with all musicians and thinking they are sticking it to the man.

That's why I said in my first post I'd prefer if people pirate my music. This way they still make a concious decision to get my music (and usually not in little bite size snacks (tracks), but the whole album) and they are aware that they have not paid me.

This at least leaves me with the chance that if they become fans that they decide to support me in making more music. With Spotify they think they already paid!

The only thing that could stop this is exactly what Taylor Swift did, if artists start to understand the rotten deal they are getting and opt out in troves, Spotify without content will wither.
2) Rather than painting a negative picture of how you think things will end up, I would be really interested to hear a genuine solution to the situation. Other than socialism. : )
Yeah that was a joke :mrgreen:
One that involves me being able to make enough money, from my releases, that I can survive on it, into old age, and also look for new music while in the bathtub and play any track, from anywhere, whenever I choose. :)

It would be great to hear your ideas, any and all of you, if you have time... as I have read 100's of posts and articles moaning about streaming and 'the future' killing any hopes and dreams of getting paid for making music... but no real, genuine solutions, not only for the artists but fans too.

It's an exciting time in music history, if you want it to be.
In many ways things are aligning for small artists. It has never been so cheap and accesible to produce, publish and advertise their music and stay in contact with their fans.

But the shift in how this music is consumed might still be the death kneel to them anyways. Because no matter how cheap you can make a product and how many people you have consuming it, if they don't pay enough for your product for you to sustain yourself, you're still fucked.

I know that when I start producing things that I think could have any chance of commercial success, I will make a point of boycotting Spotify and the like. Not only for economic reasions btw. I also refuse to be part of an "all you can eat" buffett.

So I will probably go the CD Baby route, make my own website/blog to advertise and try to play out if enough people care to listen to me.
Another option, many people are doing now are Kickstarter campaigns for the production of their albums. I think that's not a bad idea and I will look into this too, when the time comes.

ohigetbywithalittlehelpfrommyfriends
Posts: 407
Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2014 2:54 am

Re: taylor pulled out

Post by ohigetbywithalittlehelpfrommyfriends » Tue Nov 04, 2014 9:26 pm

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doghouse
Posts: 1413
Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2008 5:30 pm

Re: taylor pulled out

Post by doghouse » Tue Nov 04, 2014 10:26 pm

H20nly wrote:but who determines what they're worth
The listeners who pay for the music decide, that's how it has been since the dawn of recording.

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