Crowd-funding wants to pay back Amen Break creator

Discussion of anything not related to audio or music production
Machinesworking
Posts: 11118
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2004 9:30 pm
Location: Seattle

Re: Crowd-funding wants to pay back Amen Break creator

Post by Machinesworking » Thu Mar 12, 2015 3:43 pm

It is possible to have more than one opinion about this, it's a complex issue.
The Amen break without a doubt was a great little piece of music from that drummers talented mind.
All the resamples in the world haven't changed the essence of it. When literally hundreds of electronic producers used it to be part of a 'sound' the person responsible for it dying broke is a travesty. That it was other musicians that saw the drum part for how cool it was and revived it works in it's favor in a way.
The drummer is completely utterly devalued in music industry copy write law, there's no good reason for that.

The ability to sample other people's songs has been dead for quite some time now, people pay for the use of an Eagles riff etc. The Amen break is the most sampled piece of music in history. If you think this is a new phenomena look up George Harrison's settlement concerning My Sweet Lord.

I like how people have jumped to conclusions about Mr. Coleman's family without seemingly reading the crowdfunding statement about who gets what etc.

It's fucking sad though that sampling is a dead art. It was always a blast when a new hip/hop rap artist came out with a song with 5 or more samples in it to figure out where those samples were from.

In a way I'm pretty sad that this group didn't have the sort of lawyers that the Eagles have, because the Amen break was one of the ubiquitous samples that ruined electronic dance music for me. Awesome the first song I heard it in, annoying and generic the 500th song I heard it in. The fact that it could be copied and you could sound like "X famous producer" doing so VS being actually creative on your own is the massive downfall to sampling.

beats me
Posts: 23319
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2007 6:39 pm

Re: Crowd-funding wants to pay back Amen Break creator

Post by beats me » Thu Mar 12, 2015 3:50 pm

TomViolenz wrote:
beats me wrote:Yes, it’s horrifying to think we’re going to be living in a world where musicians and composers will only be able to utilize the license free 12,324,463 sounds available in affordable software and acoustic instruments and the voices of some 7 billion people minus those already captured by the major recording industry.
that's exactly what the blurred lines guys did
didn't seem to help them much

Wrong. They lost after YEARS of litigation. Get over it and move on. The similarity is blaringly obvious by using your ears. Soon as they lost and it became about “implications” musicians and composers had to start busting out math and music theory that serves their own self-interest.

Not to mention there are preexisting legal ways to obtain permission for using somebody else’s source material. Investigate it. Use it. There’s absolutely no fucking way Thicke and Co didn’t see this coming. They probably just didn’t think the song would become a massive hit..oops.

Machinesworking
Posts: 11118
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2004 9:30 pm
Location: Seattle

Re: Crowd-funding wants to pay back Amen Break creator

Post by Machinesworking » Thu Mar 12, 2015 3:54 pm

TomViolenz wrote:laughable

they have gotten already much more attention than their output ever deserved

that break got famous because it was used by the right samplers at the right time, not because there is anything special about it.
IMO you've got it all backwards. It's a great drum line, someone actually recognized that and used it, which is cool. It was copied ad infinitum by lazy producers making it the most sampled piece of music to date. It's a travesty that the drummer died broke. The only creative people here were the original drummer and the original producer who sampled it, the rest leeched off of that in the same way the wobble bass is in every Dubstep drop.

At the very least they should pay for being uncreative fucks, but the way the world works seems to be that conformism and generic behavior is rewarded.

Machinesworking
Posts: 11118
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2004 9:30 pm
Location: Seattle

Re: Crowd-funding wants to pay back Amen Break creator

Post by Machinesworking » Thu Mar 12, 2015 3:59 pm

This reminds me that I've always wanted to write the most generic EDM track ever. It would have to include the Amen break, autotune, a wobble bass drop, a total dropout of the drums in the middle then a riser, some chick singing soulfully, supersaw, pumping side chain compression....

beats me
Posts: 23319
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2007 6:39 pm

Re: Crowd-funding wants to pay back Amen Break creator

Post by beats me » Thu Mar 12, 2015 4:08 pm

Machinesworking wrote:This reminds me that I've always wanted to write the most generic EDM track ever. It would have to include the Amen break, autotune, a wobble bass drop, a total dropout of the drums in the middle then a riser, some chick singing soulfully, supersaw, pumping side chain compression....

And make sure the drum dropout in the middle lasts long enough for the listener to go to the bathroom, get another drink, and possibly catch a movie before the drums come back in.

Machinesworking
Posts: 11118
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2004 9:30 pm
Location: Seattle

Re: Crowd-funding wants to pay back Amen Break creator

Post by Machinesworking » Thu Mar 12, 2015 4:15 pm

beats me wrote:
Machinesworking wrote:This reminds me that I've always wanted to write the most generic EDM track ever. It would have to include the Amen break, autotune, a wobble bass drop, a total dropout of the drums in the middle then a riser, some chick singing soulfully, supersaw, pumping side chain compression....

And make sure the drum dropout in the middle lasts long enough for the listener to go to the bathroom, get another drink, and possibly catch a movie before the drums come back in.
Because it's soulful™ that way.
Plus really starts pumping after the drums come back, I mean to the point to where it doesn't even sound good, like they turned up the motherfucking volume for you! I'm talking supersaw meltdown mofo!
the crowd goes WILD! :x

beats me
Posts: 23319
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2007 6:39 pm

Re: Crowd-funding wants to pay back Amen Break creator

Post by beats me » Thu Mar 12, 2015 4:33 pm

Machinesworking wrote:
beats me wrote:
Machinesworking wrote:This reminds me that I've always wanted to write the most generic EDM track ever. It would have to include the Amen break, autotune, a wobble bass drop, a total dropout of the drums in the middle then a riser, some chick singing soulfully, supersaw, pumping side chain compression....

And make sure the drum dropout in the middle lasts long enough for the listener to go to the bathroom, get another drink, and possibly catch a movie before the drums come back in.
Because it's soulful™ that way.
Plus really starts pumping after the drums come back, I mean to the point to where it doesn't even sound good, like they turned up the motherfucking volume for you! I'm talking supersaw meltdown mofo!
the crowd goes WILD! :x

I dig the production and sounds of today’s EDM but despise the absence of drums for long periods of time multiple times in the same track. This may work for kids who just started clubbing 5 years ago when fist pumping the air with one hand while phone video recording with the other became the hot dance move, but anybody who was out enjoying bangers before than is just standing around thinking WTF while making a mental list of other places they would probably be having a better time at. :x

stringtapper
Posts: 6273
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 6:21 pm

Re: Crowd-funding wants to pay back Amen Break creator

Post by stringtapper » Thu Mar 12, 2015 5:45 pm

beats me wrote:Soon as they lost and it became about “implications” musicians and composers had to start busting out math and music theory that serves their own self-interest.
Lol yeah, a transcription of the parts from each song showing how they are not the same is "math."

:lol:

Holy fuck, I'm sorry to be like this to you of all people, but you have to be musically clueless to not see the differences.

We're not talking about using Euclidian calculus or neo-Riemannian theory to figure out how the bass and percussion parts are different. It's just simple transcription.

The similarity you hear (which is very much present) is in the texture, instrumentation, and overall feel. But the actual musical content is simply not the same.
Unsound Designer

re:dream
Posts: 4556
Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2007 9:42 am
Location: Hoerikwaggo's sunset side...
Contact:

Re: Crowd-funding wants to pay back Amen Break creator

Post by re:dream » Thu Mar 12, 2015 5:59 pm

We're obviously quite lucky here in Cape Town. Or you're going to the wrong parties 8)

beats me
Posts: 23319
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2007 6:39 pm

Re: Crowd-funding wants to pay back Amen Break creator

Post by beats me » Thu Mar 12, 2015 7:33 pm

stringtapper wrote:
beats me wrote:Soon as they lost and it became about “implications” musicians and composers had to start busting out math and music theory that serves their own self-interest.
Lol yeah, a transcription of the parts from each song showing how they are not the same is "math."

:lol:

Holy fuck, I'm sorry to be like this to you of all people, but you have to be musically clueless to not see the differences.

We're not talking about using Euclidian calculus or neo-Riemannian theory to figure out how the bass and percussion parts are different. It's just simple transcription.

The similarity you hear (which is very much present) is in the texture, instrumentation, and overall feel. But the actual musical content is simply not the same.

I certainly won’t argue with you on that and I suppose with this being posted where its posted I shouldn’t fault people for “I’m going to hone in my favorite aspect of this case” as if that’s the only angle to be taken into consideration.

TomViolenz
Posts: 6854
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2010 6:19 pm

Re: Crowd-funding wants to pay back Amen Break creator

Post by TomViolenz » Thu Mar 12, 2015 10:40 pm

Machinesworking wrote:
TomViolenz wrote:laughable

they have gotten already much more attention than their output ever deserved

that break got famous because it was used by the right samplers at the right time, not because there is anything special about it.
IMO you've got it all backwards. It's a great drum line, someone actually recognized that and used it, which is cool. It was copied ad infinitum by lazy producers making it the most sampled piece of music to date. It's a travesty that the drummer died broke. The only creative people here were the original drummer and the original producer who sampled it, the rest leeched off of that in the same way the wobble bass is in every Dubstep drop.

At the very least they should pay for being uncreative fucks, but the way the world works seems to be that conformism and generic behavior is rewarded.

I don't really disagree, I just think that the bruhaha that is made about that one drum loop is also exaggerated in the first place.

And excuse my ignorance but isn't the amen break even sped up from the original version or something?!

And to add just a little more cynism :mrgreen:

I don't think this project is happening because of a perceived sense of injustice that needs to be corrected.
I mean the guy died homeless a few years back, which I would call way too little, much too late
It's about hipsters rediscovering the 80s. So retro! Mix in a little (or a lot) of internet attention they hope to receive for themselves and the buzz word crowdfunding, which gets others to do your charity for you, without needing to invest much yourself or actually do much at all besides making a Kickstarter page, add a helping of some pretend empathy and a Twitter hashtag and you have our times pretty much in a nutshell.

TomViolenz
Posts: 6854
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2010 6:19 pm

Re: Crowd-funding wants to pay back Amen Break creator

Post by TomViolenz » Thu Mar 12, 2015 10:46 pm

beats me wrote: while making a mental list of other places they would probably be having a better time at. :x
like at home!

beats me
Posts: 23319
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2007 6:39 pm

Re: Crowd-funding wants to pay back Amen Break creator

Post by beats me » Fri Mar 13, 2015 1:35 pm

TomViolenz wrote:
beats me wrote: while making a mental list of other places they would probably be having a better time at. :x
like at home!

True that. And as a side result of my occasional party/event DJ gigs I have more lights than most DJ bars. A little sad when it’s just you and a buddy tilting them back but at least we’re not under any delusion we’ll be taking somebody home. :x

Post Reply