Is it colder now?

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Machinesworking
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Is it colder now?

Post by Machinesworking » Fri Jun 12, 2015 7:14 pm

All this talk of global warming, but really, have we the west ever treated Russia like anything more than an adversary?

Yes, they have a corrupt oligarchic system, but that's never stopped us from doing business. I don't think I have to list the regions etc.
IMO anyway it's just business as usual, the fear of imminent destruction is a good replacement for the scarcity model in a society that's becoming more and more acutely aware that we are in fact in danger of the opposite, killing ourselves off because of our excesses, not our lack of resources but our abundance, and our mismanagement of them.

So, with that in mind, the burgeoning "new" threat from the east is just another Oceana is BAD scenario, another way to motivate us into not worrying about anything besides the bottom line. After all that bomb shelter can't build itself. Of course this works out well for our eastern friends as well, since they will be able to show disregard for environmental issues and the like in favor of growth in order to counter the "threat" from the west.

Why people fall for this stuff I don't know?

Tarekith
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Re: Is it colder now?

Post by Tarekith » Fri Jun 12, 2015 7:57 pm

This is a test, isn't it?

:lol:

TomViolenz
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Re: Is it colder now?

Post by TomViolenz » Fri Jun 12, 2015 8:24 pm

Machinesworking wrote: Why people fall for this stuff I don't know?
Because it's hammered in to them. I have not seen this amount of scaremongering and propaganda since the end of East Germany.

I mentioned the Pew study in the other thread, but this is only a tiny bit of it.

Every second day you have articles mentioning how scared the Baltic states are and how they ask for help from NATO. Joint military exercises with US troups have already taken place in these countries. They, together with Poland just keep on saber rabbling as well, constantly asking for more sanctions and more troups. And all this, without any hint that Russia has changed its policy towards these countries. But that is never mentioned.

Further, when you said we have always just treated them as adversaries then this is actually not true. Especially Germany under Kohl (Conservatives) and Schröder (social democrats) have helped with their Russian counterparts to ease tentions and establish good progress in relations. Economicaly and even politically.

These same politicians, now out of power, still argue that Russias exclusion from the G8 was wrong and that the negotiations between the EU and Ukraine failed to take Russias fears and interest into account. But they are not only being ignored, but the press makes them into either old geezers, who just don't get it any more (Kohl and another former Chancelor Schmidt also Social democrats)) or as bought by the Russians (Schröder). (It must be mentioned though that Schröder did engage in kind of a fishy deal with Gazprom at the end of his reign, by helping build a pipline through the Baltic sea, bypassing Poland and he does now receive money from Gazprom - Corruption at its finest :x )

The few journalists, who try to give more of both sides to the strory writing about the negotiation mistakes and about the nature of the government change in Ukraine and who the actors were, as well how the West Ukrainians treated the East Ukrainians before this civil war, are being sidelined and accused of propaganda for Russia.

Whenever Putin says something in the conflict, his words are turned around and screamed doen as absolutely unreasonable. The comparisons with the appeasment of Chamberlain in '38 are legion.
In newspaper online forums the term Putin Versteher (literaly People who understand the motifs of Putin) is used like traitor by many (even commentators of the press) and people who don't follow the propaganda line are screamed down in typical forum fashion. They are either made out to be Russian plants or staunch right wingers, who like the Russian neo-nationalism, or as left wingers, who want communism back. Both accusations are often made by the same people :roll:

I tell you the propaganda war has already started here and it is heating up. And our Government wants to take it further and so do all the other Western governments. Because what Putin is doing is apparently never before seen evil. All while directly supporting Saudi Arabias war in Jemen :x

And while Obama is the saber rabbler in chief and almost daily calls for stronger military of Nato and more sanctions. The voices we hear from the Republican candidates are even more unsettling.

And all of this totally ignores that Russia is a nuclear power with enough nukes to turn the whole planet into a asphalt ball three times over :(

TomViolenz
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Re: Is it colder now?

Post by TomViolenz » Fri Jun 12, 2015 8:25 pm

Tarekith wrote:This is a test, isn't it?

:lol:
It's supposed to give you plausible deniability :D

beats me
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Re: Is it colder now?

Post by beats me » Fri Jun 12, 2015 8:37 pm

Machinesworking wrote:Yes, they have a corrupt oligarchic system, but that's never stopped us from doing business. I don't think I have to list the regions etc.
IMO anyway it's just business as usual, the fear of imminent destruction is a good replacement for the scarcity model in a society that's becoming more and more acutely aware that we are in fact in danger of the opposite, killing ourselves off because of our excesses, not our lack of resources but our abundance, and our mismanagement of them.

Were you trying to make me reconsider my purchase of Heavyocity’s Gravity? Because that’s what you achieved here.

I’ll be putting some serious thought into this before the discount ends on the 23rd.

H20nly
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Re: Is it colder now?

Post by H20nly » Sat Jun 13, 2015 6:06 am

Hail Mary full of grace...

Machinesworking
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Re: Is it colder now?

Post by Machinesworking » Sat Jun 13, 2015 6:33 am

beats me wrote:
Machinesworking wrote:Yes, they have a corrupt oligarchic system, but that's never stopped us from doing business. I don't think I have to list the regions etc.
IMO anyway it's just business as usual, the fear of imminent destruction is a good replacement for the scarcity model in a society that's becoming more and more acutely aware that we are in fact in danger of the opposite, killing ourselves off because of our excesses, not our lack of resources but our abundance, and our mismanagement of them.

Were you trying to make me reconsider my purchase of Heavyocity’s Gravity? Because that’s what you achieved here.

I’ll be putting some serious thought into this before the discount ends on the 23rd.
To really cement it, it's very possible that they wrap it into Ultimate in the future.

Machinesworking
Posts: 11077
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2004 9:30 pm
Location: Seattle

Re: Is it colder now?

Post by Machinesworking » Sat Jun 13, 2015 6:38 am

Tarekith wrote:This is a test, isn't it?

:lol:
:lol: seriously I just wanted to make sure that Ableton don't make you do anything stupid like banning a discussion on a music forum about an electronic music band that are clever enough to fool North Korea.

This is the necessary distraction as Chomsky would say. :)

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