Windows 10.. Is it a lemon?

Discussion of anything not related to audio or music production
doublestop
Posts: 53
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2016 9:04 am

Windows 10.. Is it a lemon?

Post by doublestop » Sun Jan 31, 2016 11:21 am

Wow,

After a night of frustration, I am turning into a very disappointed Live 9.5 user on Windows 10! it ... just freaking does NOT work! I keep having to hold the Alt key when I launch it... and then it takes about 20 MINUTES!!!! to load! Then once its loaded Windows Loses Audio! So I have to reboot Windows, and then I'm back where I started! Ableton Live won't launch no matter what I do. So I remove the Configuration file.. Lose any settings I may have, then Launch it again, wait 20 minutes... When It finally does come up. Push 2 won't light up.

After wasting an hour getting that to finally work, NOW Live 9.5 lost all the libraries All connections to the Help index and god knows what else!!! , when I renamed the "files.dba" folder. forcing it to re-scan, it restored only a fraction of the Core librarys and lost track of all the packs I painstakingly installed!

The only option I have left it seems is to completely uninstall and re-install!!!! :evil:



Is it really this BAD???? I installed it on my Mac Mini, and I don't have any of these problems!

Stromkraft
Posts: 7033
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:34 am

Re: Windows 10.. Is it a lemon?

Post by Stromkraft » Sun Jan 31, 2016 6:55 pm

doublestop wrote: Is it [Windows 10] really this BAD???? I installed it on my Mac Mini, and I don't have any of these problems!
I assume you mean you installed Live on your Mini in OS X? What version of OS X?
I'm sure others will disagree but Windows 10 has looked like a big virus from the get go. From I understand from the problems people post audio interface problems may be behind some of these issues and might be resolved when new drivers are presented (if ever in some cases). That's actually normal in any new OS.

It's not clear to me if this is a Live problem specifically or if it is a general issue with real time music applications in Windows 10. I'm sure there are people happily using Windows 10 for music making. Personally I will never move behind Windows 8 and OS X is my main OS and it still keeps growing on me.

I do think Ableton should have seen the problems coming and fix them ASAP, but the story is probably deeper.

When OS X Mavericks was released there were issues for at least some people and I've heard there is ongoing work to fix similar issues that typically involve audio interface drivers in all 3 major releases: Mavericks, Yosemite and El Capitan.

I don't think there are any simple answers, but Ableton Live customers should demand from Ableton to be on top of things like these. Equally, demand the same from Microsoft and Apple and the makers of audio interfaces. We rely on them, don't we?
Make some music!

doublestop
Posts: 53
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2016 9:04 am

Re: Windows 10.. Is it a lemon?

Post by doublestop » Sun Jan 31, 2016 8:22 pm

Stromkraft wrote:
doublestop wrote: Is it [Windows 10] really this BAD???? I installed it on my Mac Mini, and I don't have any of these problems!
I assume you mean you installed Live on your Mini in OS X? What version of OS X?
I'm sure others will disagree but Windows 10 has looked like a big virus from the get go. From I understand from the problems people post audio interface problems may be behind some of these issues and might be resolved when new drivers are presented (if ever in some cases). That's actually normal in any new OS.

It's not clear to me if this is a Live problem specifically or if it is a general issue with real time music applications in Windows 10. I'm sure there are people happily using Windows 10 for music making. Personally I will never move behind Windows 8 and OS X is my main OS and it still keeps growing on me.

I do think Ableton should have seen the problems coming and fix them ASAP, but the story is probably deeper.

When OS X Mavericks was released there were issues for at least some people and I've heard there is ongoing work to fix similar issues that typically involve audio interface drivers in all 3 major releases: Mavericks, Yosemite and El Capitan.

I don't think there are any simple answers, but Ableton Live customers should demand from Ableton to be on top of things like these. Equally, demand the same from Microsoft and Apple and the makers of audio interfaces. We rely on them, don't we?

I have Yosemite still on my Mac Mini (mid-2011). I'm a little reluctant to upgrade to El-Capitan at this point - until I hear the coast is clear regarding Audio issues. I've been hearing there are still some kinks to work out.

I don't know what's going on with my PC! I finally got a Windows Recovery screen, and once i launched that an hour or two ago, I've been staring at a "Diagnosing your PC" screen and a spinning graphic every since. All I can do is pray I guess.

My C drive on it is a Crucial 250 GB SSD. Maybe it just so happens that all the shenanigans I have put it through in the last 24 hours have thoroughly fried the thing, Who knows! I do have online backup..so If I have to Wipe a drive.. well.. that's what I'll have to do. :cry: .. (It's weird that it bit the dust right after uninstalling Ableton!!!). I have both Ableton and Steinberg Cubase installed on a second SSD. A Samsung 500GB drive.... anyway I suspect something was messing around with the Windows MBR .... and Windows is frantically trying to repair the damage. Ok maybe "Frantic" is a poor choice of a word. (Holy CRAP! this is taking a long time!)

Gotta admit, I'm a PC guy..I've been for years.. and, Full disclosure here: Ironically enough, I WORK at Microsoft! I've never seen a problem quite like this! I'm not ready to blame to OS.... I think something more complicated is going on here... For all I know it could boil down to an ugly bugaboo in the Focusrite Driver. I don't think I noticed an actual "upgrade" from focusrite since Windows 10 came out.

kitekrazy
Posts: 742
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2010 7:16 pm

Re: Windows 10.. Is it a lemon?

Post by kitekrazy » Sun Jan 31, 2016 9:00 pm

doublestop wrote:Wow,

After a night of frustration, I am turning into a very disappointed Live 9.5 user on Windows 10! it ... just freaking does NOT work! I keep having to hold the Alt key when I launch it... and then it takes about 20 MINUTES!!!! to load! Then once its loaded Windows Loses Audio! So I have to reboot Windows, and then I'm back where I started! Ableton Live won't launch no matter what I do. So I remove the Configuration file.. Lose any settings I may have, then Launch it again, wait 20 minutes... When It finally does come up. Push 2 won't light up.

After wasting an hour getting that to finally work, NOW Live 9.5 lost all the libraries All connections to the Help index and god knows what else!!! , when I renamed the "files.dba" folder. forcing it to re-scan, it restored only a fraction of the Core librarys and lost track of all the packs I painstakingly installed!

The only option I have left it seems is to completely uninstall and re-install!!!! :evil:



Is it really this BAD???? I installed it on my Mac Mini, and I don't have any of these problems!
List some hardware specs. You could clean install W10. I had an upgrade go bad because I did thru Winblows F'update.

sana48
Posts: 417
Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2015 12:16 am

Re: Windows 10.. Is it a lemon?

Post by sana48 » Sun Jan 31, 2016 10:09 pm

Windows 10 works great for me with Live 9.5

I sent a couple crash reports a few months back but that's it. I love it :/

mekanism1200
Posts: 117
Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2012 5:25 pm

Re: Windows 10.. Is it a lemon?

Post by mekanism1200 » Mon Feb 01, 2016 3:00 am

I haven't had one crash since the 9.5 update on Windows 10. It sounds like you have a corrupted drive. If you have pirated vst's that is most likely what caused it. There is a nasty virus that has been killing hard drives packaged with pirated software. Glad I caught that bug a while back and got bitch slapped with Karma wheel paddle. No more pirated shit for me.

jestermgee
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Re: Windows 10.. Is it a lemon?

Post by jestermgee » Mon Feb 01, 2016 3:17 am

I run a dual boot system, Acronis my HDD drive on a regular basis and did a 7 > 10 migration on a very strict and clean system and it works just fine if not slightly snappier.

I did initially run into issues where drives were constantly being reported as "corrupt" and disk repairs would start deleting files much to my frustration (backups saved my ass here). The issue there turns out to be the "quick boot" feature of Win8/10 that does not release/close drives attributes on shutdown but rather hibernates to disk on shutdown. If you then boot into another OS it causes major issues so that was a frustration.

I have since started rebuilding my OS production installation from scratch on a new SSD since I like to do that every year and everything has installed and worked perfectly except my old Presonus Firebox driver would not install initially but setting the installer to Win7 compatibility allowed it to install and work just fine.

There are a number of things I do not like with Win10 and I would also encourage people to check all the options on installation to disable the info gathering they try and do but as a platform to run my software it does this well. All my software is above board though so installation and updating is no issue.

sana48
Posts: 417
Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2015 12:16 am

Re: Windows 10.. Is it a lemon?

Post by sana48 » Mon Feb 01, 2016 4:38 am

ahh yeah...

forgot to mention when I switched to Windows 10 I did a clean install on a brand new SSD to avoid issues.

cskracer
Posts: 94
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2015 7:53 am
Location: Perth, Australia

Re: Windows 10.. Is it a lemon?

Post by cskracer » Mon Feb 01, 2016 4:52 am

I'm running windows 10 as well and I haven't had any problems, apart from the odd drop out of audio on my Focusrite 2i4. Not in Ableton though.

Guillermo Barrancos
Posts: 290
Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2013 8:05 am

Re: Windows 10.. Is it a lemon?

Post by Guillermo Barrancos » Mon Feb 01, 2016 8:29 am

I have a lot of issues as well. I think it´s the Focusrite drivers in my situation and conflicts with the Push 2.

Focusrite hasn´t updated the Scarlett drivers for nearly 2 years! So I am going to return my 6i6 today and probably get the Steinberg UR44 instead.
At least Steinberg keeps updating their drivers.

I was also looking to replace it with maybe the Presonus 44VSL, but they are just as bad and haven´t updated their drivers since 2014 either.

So my advice is to check your hardware and their drivers and if there aren´t any conflicts there.

lovelight
Posts: 242
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2005 9:01 pm
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Re: Windows 10.. Is it a lemon?

Post by lovelight » Mon Feb 01, 2016 9:17 am

ive got the exactly same setup on 2 pc.s one with windows 10 and win 7. The one with win 10, live cant handle cpu hungry vst,s at all without crackle the sound and drop outs of audio. It has been like that since 9.5 ( im running the latest beta 9.6b2 on both ) on win 7 no problem at all. Before the update, with live 9.2 no problem on both pc,s

Im wondering if it is a Windows 10 problem ...


https://www.facebook.com/AbletonPushVstRacks/


win 10, 64 bit, 16 gb ram, intel 8xcore i7-4790 cpu 3.60zh, Live suite 9, propellerhead balance
http://lovelight.biz/

Guillermo Barrancos
Posts: 290
Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2013 8:05 am

Re: Windows 10.. Is it a lemon?

Post by Guillermo Barrancos » Mon Feb 01, 2016 12:17 pm

Just traded in my Focusrite 6i6 for the Steinberg UR44.

So far I am able to run Live 9.5 again without it hanging. /fingers crossed.

So thats an improvement at least.

estolad
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2011 9:36 pm

Re: Windows 10.. Is it a lemon?

Post by estolad » Mon Feb 01, 2016 2:01 pm

I've had some problems with Focusrite as well until I downloaded and installed the beta drivers.

Stromkraft
Posts: 7033
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:34 am

Re: Windows 10.. Is it a lemon?

Post by Stromkraft » Mon Feb 01, 2016 8:42 pm

doublestop wrote: For all I know it could boil down to an ugly bugaboo in the Focusrite Driver. I don't think I noticed an actual "upgrade" from focusrite since Windows 10 came out.
That's a possible cause and you ought to try an alternative audio interface if you can, just for comparison. I have made multiple observations myself when issues came down to be driver related on both OS X and Windows, typically surfacing when upgrading the system.

Personally I don't believe the issues there potentially are in OS X are different between Mavericks, Yosemite or El Capitan so I just took the plunge and clean installed El Capitan. I use from time to time 3 different Macs with Live 9.5, one is still Mavericks and 2 are now El Capitan. There are no noteworthy problems in either of these, but the one I just upgraded have had some small issues. I'll see if that changes with a new OS.

I do think it's very important to only install plug-ins you know are or at least are likely to be compatible with the OS you're using. That goes for drivers too. But sometimes you just don't know.
Make some music!

Guillermo Barrancos
Posts: 290
Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2013 8:05 am

Re: Windows 10.. Is it a lemon?

Post by Guillermo Barrancos » Mon Feb 01, 2016 9:59 pm

Well in case With Focusrite, it's just bogus!

They put up a site With Windows 10 compatibility and the 6i6 was supposed to be Windows 10 ready.

Well.... it wasn't. Total bogus, as the Mix Control 1.8 is the last release and was last updated / released in March 2014. Almost 2 years ago!

So I returned it and got the Steinberg UR44 now, which has proper updated Windows 10 drivers that actually work.

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