Windows 10.. Is it a lemon?

Discussion of anything not related to audio or music production
Schmidi
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Re: Windows 10.. Is it a lemon?

Post by Schmidi » Tue Feb 02, 2016 1:20 am

Windows 10 has been working fine for me. So has my Focusrite 8i6 which is nearly four years old at this point.

Guillermo Barrancos
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Re: Windows 10.. Is it a lemon?

Post by Guillermo Barrancos » Tue Feb 02, 2016 7:37 am

Schmidi wrote:Windows 10 has been working fine for me. So has my Focusrite 8i6 which is nearly four years old at this point.
It's interesting to know what Sample rate you are using in Ableton? Default 44,1kHz?

As my problems with the Focusrite 6i6 (crashes, hangups, etc) started when using 48 kHz sample rate in Ableton.
Everything just grinded to a halt, with 100% CPU spikes, total hangups and often outright crashes.

Now I have the Steinberg UR44 and have ZERO problems so far, even when using 48 kHz in Ableton. Everything is stable now ( /knock on wood).

I did not reinstall anything. Just uninstalled the Focusrite drivers and installed the Steinberg Tools for UR44 and updated preferences in Ableton.

H20nly
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Re: Windows 10.. Is it a lemon?

Post by H20nly » Tue Feb 02, 2016 7:43 am

I have Windows 10 on my laptop at home and PC at work and love it. the privacy stuff is no different than Apple, or google for that matter; probably better than the latter.

Live opens fine on the laptop with 10 installed... but I've never used it with a proper audio interface... since I got an Apogee when I switched to an iMac for music production. the iMac still has Mavericks on it because, frankly, El Capitan scares the shit out of me. the reviews are some of the worst I've ever seen.

after the free upgrade to 10 pro from 7 ultimate, I immediately used 10 to create installation media for a clean install. maybe that would help.

doublestop
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Re: Windows 10.. Is it a lemon?

Post by doublestop » Tue Feb 02, 2016 1:33 pm

Guillermo Barrancos wrote:
Schmidi wrote:Windows 10 has been working fine for me. So has my Focusrite 8i6 which is nearly four years old at this point.
It's interesting to know what Sample rate you are using in Ableton? Default 44,1kHz?

As my problems with the Focusrite 6i6 (crashes, hangups, etc) started when using 48 kHz sample rate in Ableton.
Everything just grinded to a halt, with 100% CPU spikes, total hangups and often outright crashes.

Now I have the Steinberg UR44 and have ZERO problems so far, even when using 48 kHz in Ableton. Everything is stable now ( /knock on wood).

I did not reinstall anything. Just uninstalled the Focusrite drivers and installed the Steinberg Tools for UR44 and updated preferences in Ableton.
I left my sampling rate at 44kHz. I don't really feel the need to go higher at this point. Of course I'm using the Focusrite Saffire 24 pro. which is firewire instead of USB.

jestermgee
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Re: Windows 10.. Is it a lemon?

Post by jestermgee » Thu Feb 04, 2016 6:52 am

Well I have to come back here to update that Win 10 does have some issues with my old Presonus Firebox. Basically I get audio dropouts for 3 seconds every 10 minutes regardless of the load (watching a youtube vid, playing MP3s etc). Not just audio dropout, the whole interface drops off and comes back again.

The Firebox is 10 years old but still looks brand new and functions perfectly under Win7 (I still dual boot and have no issues under 7). The drivers don't support win 10 but I was able to force install them and they appeared to work but haven't been updated since Win7 was released.

Funnily though if I do the Upgrade from Win7 > 10 it works fine as that is what I did initially. I then installed windows 10 fresh and now have this issue. Given the interface is old and not supported I am not blaming this on Win 10 and accept I will just have to update. Its served me well.

mrgrim3
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Re: Windows 10.. Is it a lemon?

Post by mrgrim3 » Thu Feb 04, 2016 7:26 am

I don't know if windows 10 is good or not because I didn't upgrade to it

they basically put malware into your pc through "recommended update" multiple times

imo it is because they did so many versions of windows and now they try to save their own ass

idk about you but those updates fucked me up and I had to get everything stable again after gwx.exe came

jestermgee
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Re: Windows 10.. Is it a lemon?

Post by jestermgee » Thu Feb 04, 2016 8:25 am

mrgrim3 wrote:I don't know if windows 10 is good or not because I didn't upgrade to it

they basically put malware into your pc through "recommended update" multiple times

imo it is because they did so many versions of windows and now they try to save their own ass

idk about you but those updates fucked me up and I had to get everything stable again after gwx.exe came
Yeah I'm very methodical when I do upgrades and had backups to roll back to and checked every step of the install manually to switch off unneeded reports and configure.

Windows is just a layer for me to run my software like my OS. I'm realistic with what I have to deal with most of the time. You pay for things in some way... Mac it's money but reliable, Windows it's time but more flexible and then all the colours in between. Hate the unexpected drop for a new interface because of "win 10" but accept its a 10 year old device so the inbuilt obsolescence is due I guess.

Time will tell on Windows 10 in the longer run.

H20nly
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Re: Windows 10.. Is it a lemon?

Post by H20nly » Thu Feb 04, 2016 3:23 pm

mrgrim3 wrote:they basically put malware into your pc through "recommended update" multiple times
only the same bugs that Apple, Google, Facebook... and numerous others give you. your non-specific identity is dead the moment your device hits the World Wide Web.

zeropoint
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Re: Windows 10.. Is it a lemon?

Post by zeropoint » Thu Feb 04, 2016 7:51 pm

A friend of mine, who has a new machine with Windows 10 pre-installed, had his email stop working almost immediately after purchase. I haven't had a windows machine for many many years but I had a look into it for him. There was an update trying to download that had become stuck. Didn't matter what I did, the update just wouldn't come down. Ended up on two separate sessions with two different online windows techs who took control of the machine remotely and needed a total of five hours to get the email working again.... 8O
MacBook Pro 17" 2.93Ghz 8G Ram, Live 9.6, OSX 10.11.3,Faderfoxes, Monome........

Stromkraft
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Re: Windows 10.. Is it a lemon?

Post by Stromkraft » Thu Feb 04, 2016 10:23 pm

H20nly wrote:I have Windows 10 on my laptop at home and PC at work and love it. the privacy stuff is no different than Apple
That statement is devoid of facts and is not based on reality. These 2 OSes are not the same on the level of privacy at all. Apple has so far not based their economic model on user info, like Google has. This might change quickly unless users and shareholders speak up, but their incentive is so far in fact weaker than other companies.

This idea that "everyone is the same" is bullshit and part of self-fulfilling prophecy. I vote with my money and Apple is currently way better than most when it comes to privacy issues. I will kick their ass best I can when they make bad decisions. Apple actually listens to feedback and still subjectively think ahead.

OK, that was a side-track and I really think everyone should use what they want. I have a PC too and it's not moving beyond Win 7.
Make some music!

Guillermo Barrancos
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Re: Windows 10.. Is it a lemon?

Post by Guillermo Barrancos » Thu Feb 04, 2016 10:44 pm

Stromkraft wrote:
H20nly wrote:I have Windows 10 on my laptop at home and PC at work and love it. the privacy stuff is no different than Apple
That statement is devoid of facts and is not based on reality. These 2 OSes are not the same on the level of privacy at all. Apple has so far not based their economic model on user info, like Google has. This might change quickly unless users and shareholders speak up, but their incentive is so far in fact weaker than other companies.

This idea that "everyone is the same" is bullshit and part of self-fulfilling prophecy. I vote with my money and Apple is currently way better than most when it comes to privacy issues. I will kick their ass best I can when they make bad decisions. Apple actually listens to feedback and still subjectively think ahead.

OK, that was a side-track and I really think everyone should use what they want. I have a PC too and it's not moving beyond Win 7.
Microsoft is no different than Apple when it comes to privacy. They are not in the business selling privacy information either.

The sad truth is that Windows is the most used OS on the planet and as such is the primary target of hackers and criminals.

But as Apple has gained traction over the last couple years, both OSX and iOS are targets too now as has been seen lately, with the discovery of major security flaws in both of these OS'es, some gone unfixed for over a year before finally patched by Apple.

So if you think you are totally safe and invincible on OSX. Well, think again.

And since I have grown up and earn enough money now with a well paid job and as such don't pirate stuff anymore... I haven't had a single virus nor a piece of malware on any of my windows machines for over decade now.

I am not even running a third party virus scanner anymore, just the build in Windows Defender. Which is fantastic and very low profile.

PS. I use both Windows 10 and OSX 10.11. So have no bias to either OS.
Just use either responsibly. Keep them updated. Don't pirate ( it's pretty much all infected with malware these days ). Don't fall for phishing scam emails.
Oh... and don't install the Facebook app or any of the Google apps, plugins. :wink:

H20nly
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Re: Windows 10.. Is it a lemon?

Post by H20nly » Thu Feb 04, 2016 11:19 pm

^ yep. that.

Microsoft put Cortana into 10, their version of Siri... all those Find My iPhone and location services apps require information about you, your whereabouts and your habits for their "helpful" suggestions to work. an Apple ID keeps track of information about your purchases your previous maps loacations. your Google account keeps track of your searches, your locations, your contacts... why, suddenly, when Microsoft shows up to the game everyone else has been playing for damn near a decade is there suddenly a concern about privacy? people give it away themselves. just being on this forum allows Ableton to damn near pinpoint your location... and what they lack in accuracy from your source IP they make up for in your software registration. go ahead, use a fake address, fake name whatever... but at some point where the bank account touches the service your shrouded veil becomes a glass house.

meh. words. twist them. pretend one company is better than the other at storing a profile on you... but don't act like Microsoft are doing anything new and uncommon.

and enjoy that maps app tied to your account on platform x. :idea:

Stromkraft
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Re: Windows 10.. Is it a lemon?

Post by Stromkraft » Fri Feb 05, 2016 12:31 am

Guillermo Barrancos wrote:
Microsoft is no different than Apple when it comes to privacy. They are not in the business selling privacy information either.
When it comes to privacy achievements Microsoft are indeed much worse. Why? They don't care enough, that's why. Large parts of Microsoft's track record on this is well known, though much lurks hidden away for long times and sometimes surfaces. Windows users seem have given up years ago (though I'm sure some fight with info, knowledge and talking to Microsoft). OS X users (those living in la-la land exempted) haven't yet. Granted some just don't have a clue, but there are also many that know and share much about security issues.

But let's not fool ourselves. The safest systems are some BSD systems (A flavour range of Unix that has influenced and is part OS X to a large extent) or even certain distributions of Linux, if set up properly. We have no Ableton Live there unfortunately. That's where Bitwig users have an upside.

I have no problem with you guys thinking otherwise on this matter, I do respect your views though I don't share them. I can see upsides to using Windows for some users, but you're simply wrong on the privacy thing as you've expressed it here.

Relatively Apple's track record is much better compared to Microsoft, while being far far from perfect. Sometimes you want to kick them in the head for their negligent behaviour. Microsoft is still worse, much much worse.

I'm sorry, but the fact you can build a nice music production system on Windows doesn't mean privacy and security issues suddenly are solved. If you lock it down and don't do stupid stuff you can avoid the worst problems of course, but the problem is Microsoft themselves. I DON'T mean that they collect user data necessarily, even that they might do this, it's their whole attitude to user data and protecting it that is sloppy.

Choose your poison I guess. To me it's easy. :mrgreen:
Last edited by Stromkraft on Fri Feb 05, 2016 12:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
Make some music!

Stromkraft
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Re: Windows 10.. Is it a lemon?

Post by Stromkraft » Fri Feb 05, 2016 12:48 am

H20nly wrote: meh. words. twist them. pretend one company is better than the other at storing a profile on you...
A user profile is what you think constitute a privacy and security issue? That's not even on the table as I see it. Unfortunately, it's too off topic to get into what privacy and security issues really are here. We don't share views on this. Let's leave it at that.

Let's instead try here and keep focused on the subject of Windows 10 music machines .
It would seem Windows 10 and Live 9.5+ doesn't play so nice for some users, judging from quite a few posts on the state of this in the last months. When I've compared earlier Live versions on OS X to my Windows 7 machine, they have behaved equally well.

I wonder what the huge undertaking a cross-platform developer like Ableton, to support as many OS versions that they still do (despite the drops last spring), does entail. More than that I wonder how Windows users can successfully set up their machines to keep them stable as music production machines. Surely it can be done despite all the variables?
Make some music!

kitekrazy
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Re: Windows 10.. Is it a lemon?

Post by kitekrazy » Fri Feb 05, 2016 1:34 am

Invest in drive imaging software. Make an image of W7. Upgrade to 10. Make an image and make sure it's registered. Revert back to W7 if you ever feel the need. With Thunderbolt and USB 3.1 you probably wont have those in Windows 7.

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