I want to quit.

Discussion of anything not related to audio or music production
beats me
Posts: 23319
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2007 6:39 pm

Re: I want to quit.

Post by beats me » Wed Nov 02, 2016 1:30 pm

Did some forum sparing elsewhere with people who feel on demand music streaming services should be free or $5 tops.

The free people are a cancer on music and need to die. I’m sure there are some nice folks in the free camp but that doesn’t change the fact that death to leeches will be a top bullet point on my 2020 presidential run platform. It’s part of a larger plan to solve the global food and water shortage problem. Lock them in a room with no food or water but free on demand entertainment for a month.

The $5 people just don’t want to seem like the free assholes. Their generous $5 offering has little to do with music appreciation and more to do with appreciation for the infrastructure it takes to create and maintain the service. More than $5 just pushes them to the free but less convenient alternatives.

So there are your customers as a music producer.

Angstrom
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Contact:

Re: I want to quit.

Post by Angstrom » Wed Nov 02, 2016 2:40 pm

beats me wrote: The free people are a cancer on music and need to die. I’m sure there are some nice folks in the free camp but that doesn’t change the fact that death to leeches will be a top bullet point on my 2020 presidential run platform.
You may enjoy this angry hippy video of Neil Young, in 1971, discovering a bootleg of CSNY in a small record store.
Image
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7HiSB9Nc0o

I love the store guy, "I don't even listen to records, I listen to tapes" heh. heh.

Stromkraft
Posts: 7033
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:34 am

Re: I want to quit.

Post by Stromkraft » Wed Nov 02, 2016 9:37 pm

beats me wrote: The free people are a cancer on music and need to die. .
(This is not directed at you beats me, only because I quoted you. Don't take it personally, OK?. It's about this old, tired and widespread attitude that I just won't have)

Forgetaboutit. These people are a lost cause. This is a tired old record at that. It leads to nowhere. Change the tune!

I used to buy 20-50 records per week without giving one iota about whether the producers, the record company or the artist made any money. I don't think anyone pays for music wanting every single time to "support the artist". Why do people want this piece of music recording on offer?

They want it because they lust after this item. They must have this record. Must! It's not about the fact you can get this online recorded from somewhere, because owning the artefact beats the download. You can hold it, smell it and not just play it. You can glance at the cover and read while you listen. You can make it yours. Not the recording, the record. you can play it, collect it, share it with friends at your house or at a house party and make it a part of your social fabric for while.

That's what you seem to have forgotten music producers! The importance of creating that feeling that made people, like myself and others, buy records sometimes more than they had money for really. You can eat next week, right?

You can whine all day saying, but those people are so few! :cry: , I want to be a paid artist :cry: , They're stealing my music :cry:, but in the end of the day if you don't care about the very people that wants to pay for your music on or in whatever medium then you can go and f*** yourself. Have fun! Because that means you don't have what it takes. Quit while you can.
Make some music!

stringtapper
Posts: 6272
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 6:21 pm

Re: I want to quit.

Post by stringtapper » Wed Nov 02, 2016 11:09 pm

Stromkraft wrote:You can whine all day saying, but those people are so few! :cry: , I want to be a paid artist :cry: , They're stealing my music :cry:, but in the end of the day if you don't care about the very people that wants to pay for your music on or in whatever medium then you can go and f*** yourself. Have fun! Because that means you don't have what it takes. Quit while you can.
And yet if I had said the same thing to someone but replaced "caring about the people…" with "learning music fundamentals" people here would lose their damn minds. :|
Unsound Designer

NoSonic822
Posts: 700
Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2013 8:38 am

Re: I want to quit.

Post by NoSonic822 » Thu Nov 03, 2016 3:45 am

you guys make way too many posts to be making any money off anything. all you time spent wining on the interwebz. :|

Machinesworking
Posts: 11102
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2004 9:30 pm
Location: Seattle

Re: I want to quit.

Post by Machinesworking » Thu Nov 03, 2016 4:42 am

Inversoundzzz wrote:you guys make way too many posts to be making any money off anything. all you time spent wining on the interwebz. :|
...and shit grammar ruins your troll attempt....
Seriously people, learn how to troll, inversoundzzz post here is a great bad example, cringe worthy to it's core.

[erm]
Site Admin
Posts: 119
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Location: Seattle

Re: I want to quit.

Post by [erm] » Thu Nov 03, 2016 6:30 am

Or better yet, forget trolling and spelling errors and treat each other with a bit of respect in these discussion like we ask all forums users to.
Ableton Forum Administrator

Stromkraft
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Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:34 am

Re: I want to quit.

Post by Stromkraft » Thu Nov 03, 2016 11:11 am

To steer it where I'd like to go, how can a music community, such as this one, or another, help foster a creative attitude that moves itself and the music world forward instead of bemoaning what used to be (yet wasn't for most) or getting stuck in what's regarded as unfair?

Because the music world has been changing as we all know, but it isn't dead, hope is not gone and it keeps changing too. The only question is if you want to be a part of this continuous change or not.

I think it's about both being creative and understanding how all of these things in the music world actually work. There's no question there's a lot of crap, but that's not all there is and there was always crap. But what's good is wonderful and makes it worth it. Still I think that's true.

Do you have to make music? I know I have to. If I had to stop I'd be going crazy. I don't expect to make a lot of money from it, but I ain't playing for free (unless it's a good cause) and I'm not taking any shit.

If there's individuals I encounter I can help by sharing knowledge or whatever I'm open to that. I love the different music scenes I move in, though some manifestations are more interesting than others. I find inspiration everywhere.

If you can be creative about music I'm sure you can be creative about how to get paid for music. But what you can get paid for might not be what you want to do. Maybe it's better to do something else in order to make a living and finance your music career. Maybe, but it might be worth exploring other possibilities that can be hard to see when you convince yourself there's nothing. Especially if you think getting there doesn't take hard work or doesn't mean you'll have to make sacrifices. For most it does mean all that and more I'm sure.

It might be tough most of the time, but not all of the time. If it's worth it, must in the end be up to yourself. I think it's fine to discuss these things but moving forward yourself and also together with other people beats everything. After all, that's when you can gain perspective and see what's out there.
Make some music!

BoddAH
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Location: Brussels, Belgium

Re: I want to quit.

Post by BoddAH » Thu Nov 03, 2016 11:46 am

I think the record industry is cancer. There, I said it.

It’s a bunch of stockholders, suits, agents and wage-slaves in production, retail and promotion sharing 90% of the pie and *generously* giving the crumbs to the artist who still ends up making a shit ton of money because the pie is so damn big when the music industry’s schemes actually work and everybody listens to the same lame 10 artists over and over again on radio, TV, paid streaming, YouTube, ads, etc. for months on end. Obscuring 99.99999% of artists in the process.
So yeah, if you’re one of those ten chosen FOTM of the month artist and you’re content with being a bitch for the record industry life’s probably good for you, at least financially and at least for a few months until the industry drops you like a wet sock for the next FOTM star. :evil: If you’re not, at least now you have a fighting chance.

I can’t wait for the record industry to finally die. Maybe one day music will be discovered and gain traction because it’s actually good and generates buzz on the internet not because some suits did a focus-group and marketed the fuck out of the most financially viable act.

Of course, that would also mean that the market changes. Music is no longer a commodity. A record is no longer a sought after item that you have to buy or gift your loved ones when you can access millions of songs 27/7 online. That doesn’t mean there aren’t other means to make money though. Play live in clubs, sell merchandise, license your music for advertisement, film or TV, monetize your website with ads, sell stems to DJs, teach your craft, the possibilities are endless. 8)

If you don’t succeed and don’t make enough money don’t blame the system or the customers. Even if you’re technically right, you can’t change the rules. You can only adapt and deal with them and take comfort in the fact that some people clearly DO succeed and make a shit ton of money.

Stromkraft
Posts: 7033
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:34 am

Re: I want to quit.

Post by Stromkraft » Thu Nov 03, 2016 12:01 pm

BoddAH wrote: Music is no longer a commodity. A record is no longer a sought after item that you have to buy or gift your loved ones when you can access millions of songs 27/7 online. That doesn’t mean there aren’t other means to make money though.
Items containing music aren't the only artefacts that people would like to buy that a music producer could look into producing. That might be boring for some and not for others. But infusing a music related product with that "I have to have that" spirit is key to selling anything.
BoddAH wrote: Even if you’re technically right, you can’t change the rules.
Rules are made to be broken. Whole companies will be based on disrupting "the music market". Will that make the position of artists stronger? Maybe not, but artists may need to widen their strategies and not be stuck in the methods of a long gone era. If artists can't do that themselves they'll have to co-operate with those that can. That might be a new type of record company or hopefully something more advanced.
Make some music!

NoSonic822
Posts: 700
Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2013 8:38 am

Re: I want to quit.

Post by NoSonic822 » Thu Nov 03, 2016 1:58 pm

it was a joke for gods sake. out of my 600 posts maybe 95% are helping people who ask questions in here. people who i dont see any one else helping. so :!: :idea: this is the off topic room, anyway, loosen up.

why do i get the sense there is a lot of bitterness in this thread. i knew i shouldnt even post in it, because the negativity will start to attract to my positivity. and suck me into its vortex.
Last edited by NoSonic822 on Thu Nov 03, 2016 2:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

beats me
Posts: 23319
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2007 6:39 pm

Re: I want to quit.

Post by beats me » Thu Nov 03, 2016 2:04 pm

Stromkraft wrote:
beats me wrote: The free people are a cancer on music and need to die. .
(This is not directed at you beats me, only because I quoted you. Don't take it personally, OK?. It's about this old, tired and widespread attitude that I just won't have)

Forgetaboutit. These people are a lost cause. This is a tired old record at that. It leads to nowhere. Change the tune!

I used to buy 20-50 records per week without giving one iota about whether the producers, the record company or the artist made any money. I don't think anyone pays for music wanting every single time to "support the artist". Why do people want this piece of music recording on offer?

They want it because they lust after this item. They must have this record. Must! It's not about the fact you can get this online recorded from somewhere, because owning the artefact beats the download. You can hold it, smell it and not just play it. You can glance at the cover and read while you listen. You can make it yours. Not the recording, the record. you can play it, collect it, share it with friends at your house or at a house party and make it a part of your social fabric for while.

That's what you seem to have forgotten music producers! The importance of creating that feeling that made people, like myself and others, buy records sometimes more than they had money for really. You can eat next week, right?

You can whine all day saying, but those people are so few! :cry: , I want to be a paid artist :cry: , They're stealing my music :cry:, but in the end of the day if you don't care about the very people that wants to pay for your music on or in whatever medium then you can go and f*** yourself. Have fun! Because that means you don't have what it takes. Quit while you can.

I’m less annoyed by the financial aspect than people proudly stating they aren’t going to pay for something that should have some value. There has always been some form of piracy but not on the scale of everybody on the planet with a computer and back in the day when we were making other people cassettes and CDs we weren’t proud of it or building a massive library just because we can.

Most original creative fields have never been a cash cow for the creator but you can’t argue that it’s not substantially worse now. Creative people will throw in the towel a lot sooner than they used to historically, especially as the economy continues to crush down on the poor and middle class. You can’t afford to get that low level job that supports your basic needs while you pursue your dream.

Stromkraft
Posts: 7033
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:34 am

Re: I want to quit.

Post by Stromkraft » Thu Nov 03, 2016 2:31 pm

beats me wrote:
I’m less annoyed by the financial aspect than people proudly stating they aren’t going to pay for something that should have some value. There has always been some form of piracy but not on the scale of everybody on the planet with a computer and back in the day when we were making other people cassettes and CDs we weren’t proud of it or building a massive library just because we can.
Yeah, but as I said making music-related products that people want is a possibility. There are a number of people on the planet willing to pay for music, albeit not always perhaps the music in itself devoid of anything.

There are still a few people out there that feel they want to obtain new releases on vinyl, CD or even cassette. I'm not suggesting physical media formats is the solution for everybody, but those are real tangible products some people wants to pay for. There are even people like me that like to purchase music on bandcamp, beatport or in other places in lossless formats and not all of them are DJs.

My whole point was that there are people that do want to pay for music related products in different ways and that's who we as music producers should cater for. There is a truism in business — based on data analysis — that 80% or so of the of the revenue comes from 20% or so of your customers. If you're not catering for those 20% or so of your fans, then you're shooting yourself in the foot. What the other 80% do or don't isn't as interesting. That's my main point.
Make some music!

BoddAH
Posts: 638
Joined: Sat Jun 26, 2010 7:13 pm
Location: Brussels, Belgium

Re: I want to quit.

Post by BoddAH » Thu Nov 03, 2016 3:53 pm

I think the fundamental problem with monetization of music if that there’s far too many musicians and not even remotely enough potential revenue for everyone. :roll:

The business model is changing but the fundamental problem is still the same. Back in the day with the music industry you had a couple of artists making big money and 99% remaining obscure and making jack shit and now you have free or next to free access to everybody’s music on the internet and far too many artists are fighting for pocket change.

That’s what you get for choosing a job that’s actually fulfilling and meaningful. :P

If you want to make guaranteed money in this world, do something that nobody else wants to do but still needs to be done. Become an accountant or an undertaker or something. Do something that isn't popular. Nobody likes or chooses to have a 9 to 5 job in a cubicle but people still do it for the money. Life would be pretty unfair if in addition to being much more fun and fulfilling being an artist was also an easy and sure way to make a lot of money.

It’s the same shit with football (soccer) and sports in general, video games, painting, photography, etc. You can’t just expect to get rich doing something that is fundamentally so enjoyable that many people literally do it for fun as a hobby and consequently don't mind doing it for free. Yeah. You’re literally competing against people that enjoy doing your job so much that they don’t mind not getting anything in return. To make it you have to be incredibly lucky and/or talented and, above all, good.

vido
Posts: 237
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Location: Oslo, Norway
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Re: I want to quit.

Post by vido » Thu Nov 03, 2016 6:32 pm

1. I think most artists struggle with the thought of being talentless at some point of their path.

2. If this isn't the case, if you're truly not talented whatsoever, like tone-deaf or something, it shouldn't be shameful to quit either. Well yeah it will feel a bit pathetic having spent ten years making music but it may be better to just move on.

3. If you have the technical ability you could collaborate with others. I'm starting to realise collaboration is probably the way to go for most of us. I struggle with actually finishing stuff, finding my sound etc. And I find it's soo much easier to finish something when I have a collaborator. Or you could start mixing other peoples tunes or something.



Anyway, I feel with you!
Collab with Jeremy Blake of Red Means Recording:

Blake and Axe; "All The Light I Do Not See"
Spotify: https://goo.gl/MR8Wjr
Tidal: https://goo.gl/s35W33
Google Play: https://goo.gl/HQ1g7E
Amazon: https://goo.gl/cx5dUL

Not the usual stuff.

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