Live 10 around the corner?

Discussion of anything not related to audio or music production
Stromkraft
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Re: Live 10 around the corner?

Post by Stromkraft » Sat Mar 25, 2017 11:47 pm

Angstrom wrote: L9 disapointed me, I am not getting my hopes up for L10
While that is probably wise, I do feel the opposite. Since 9.2 Live have delivered. Kinda late but nevertheless.
Make some music!

Angstrom
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Re: Live 10 around the corner?

Post by Angstrom » Sun Mar 26, 2017 1:05 am

Things I have enjoyed about Live 9 have been Session Automation, Dual monitors, the EQ8 upgrade, the Cytomic filters and the Glue Compressor.
But that's a bit of a weird list really.

These are nice, but I felt that Session Automation took so much of their effort that expanding the rest of Session and arrangement took a back seat.
We can see competitors exploring container clips, and arrangement clips, overdubbing, etc. Somehow outpacing the inventors of this interaction metaphor in developing it further.

Additionally I feel that the way Live handles presets, previews, and program change assignment, the stacking, loading and flipping .. it's not very "performative". It's strange for a program called Live that preset and patch control doesn't really seem to exist, MainStage is literally the only player in town.

I feel sure that owners of Push feel much more connection with their live sets, but as non-Push owner I still feel that disconnection from the sounds and the instruments - and as for the clips and scenes there are no immediate performance and jamming methods exposed to the user like: "duplicate this whole section and modulate it to the IV" or "snapshot what the mix is like now, because I'm going to come back to it after this breakdown" . The whole metaphor seems very procedural for a program called "Live".

It's difficult to describe without a "User Story", but in essence there is a layer of jamming meta-control which the user needs access to, and not via Max, or (for me) Push

Live's Session needs to expand and encompass routings, snapshots, and the loading and unloading of resources to make the whole thing a "Live Performance Instrument".
I'm aware they made Push for exactly this purpose, but the implementation seems very focused on a different musical creation method than mine. EG:
I have never needed to sample a vinyl record breakbeat and slice it into a simpler. I'm not making Dubstep, or HipHop. So, the focus of Push is lost on me.

mekanism1200
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Re: Live 10 around the corner?

Post by mekanism1200 » Mon Mar 27, 2017 4:01 am

If I had it my way I would disable the session view altogether. I just dont use it, and sold my Push because I was basically forced to follow that workflow. I suppose I would have been better off with a linear DAW like like Cubase or Logic. However, Ableton was easy to start out on and everything seemed logical and the UI is simple and well placed. My first intro to DAW's was Reason 2.0 and while you can create sounds very quickly the UI can get confusing and scrolling through machines gets old.

For 10 I hope they provide some updates to the arrangement section, make editing of multiple tracks easier and for the love of all things under the sun allow an "Insert Time" so I dont have to grab half of my projects arrangement with 30+ tracks just to move it over 8 bars to create dead space!

Also I would really like tabbed projects...imagine being able to grab a previous versions' track data into a newer version because you "took things a little too far" with that preset and completely muffed the mix.

antic604
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Re: Live 10 around the corner?

Post by antic604 » Mon Mar 27, 2017 7:16 am

mekanism1200 wrote:...and for the love of all things under the sun allow an "Insert Time" so I dont have to grab half of my projects arrangement with 30+ tracks just to move it over 8 bars to create dead space!
You mean this "Insert Silence"?
https://www.ableton.com/en/manual/arran ... e-commands

Angstrom
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Re: Live 10 around the corner?

Post by Angstrom » Mon Mar 27, 2017 4:37 pm

mekanism1200 wrote:If I had it my way I would disable the session view altogether. I just dont use it, and sold my Push because I was basically forced to follow that workflow.
I honestly think you might be better off in something like Studio One if you really never use Session.
I do a lot of work in Arrangement, but at least 40 % is Session and that 40% is essential to me because I use it as a scratchpad. Basically just what Studio One introduced in their version 3 that's how I use Live's Session. Of course, that means I'm not using Live as Ableton intend (or how most users do), but until Studio One added scratch pads I had no option really.

For the moment Live is still my main DAW because of the familiarity. but if you can really do without Session there are some great DAWs out there - Logic, Reaper, Cubase, Studio One ... all of them are better at Arrangement than Live. Arrangement has never been its strong point. More of an afterthought.

. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZALHeAeOjM4

mekanism1200
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Re: Live 10 around the corner?

Post by mekanism1200 » Mon Mar 27, 2017 5:02 pm

antic604 wrote:
mekanism1200 wrote:...and for the love of all things under the sun allow an "Insert Time" so I dont have to grab half of my projects arrangement with 30+ tracks just to move it over 8 bars to create dead space!
You mean this "Insert Silence"?
https://www.ableton.com/en/manual/arran ... e-commands
No, I mean I would like the option to select 1 point in the timeline, right click and insert bars of time. As it works now you have to select the amount of time you want, duplicate it, then delete all track data in that region of time, or grab all of the track data after the point you want to add time and manually drag it further down the timeline to create dead space.

Angstrom
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Re: Live 10 around the corner?

Post by Angstrom » Mon Mar 27, 2017 5:35 pm

mekanism1200 wrote:
antic604 wrote:
mekanism1200 wrote:...and for the love of all things under the sun allow an "Insert Time" so I dont have to grab half of my projects arrangement with 30+ tracks just to move it over 8 bars to create dead space!
You mean this "Insert Silence"?
https://www.ableton.com/en/manual/arran ... e-commands
No, I mean I would like the option to select 1 point in the timeline, right click and insert bars of time. As it works now you have to select the amount of time you want, duplicate it, then delete all track data in that region of time, or grab all of the track data after the point you want to add time and manually drag it further down the timeline to create dead space.
you have misunderstood the system for inserting silence.
its actually very simple. drag to define the duration of silence you want to insert and then control+i to insert it
Image

or do it from the Create menu. if you are a masochist

antic604
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Re: Live 10 around the corner?

Post by antic604 » Mon Mar 27, 2017 6:31 pm

Yeah, what @Angstrom said - the functionality you want is already there: either you choose a point and dialog box will ask you how much time you want to insert, or you select an area and same amount of silence is inserted before it.

Stromkraft
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Re: Live 10 around the corner?

Post by Stromkraft » Mon Mar 27, 2017 9:25 pm

Angstrom wrote: I'm aware they made Push for exactly this purpose, but the implementation seems very focused on a different musical creation method than mine. EG:
I have never needed to sample a vinyl record breakbeat and slice it into a simpler. I'm not making Dubstep, or HipHop. So, the focus of Push is lost on me.
I've said this elsewhere: I don't feel that nudge to work that way with Push at all. There are no limitations on how to work except for a slant of Session view above all. Which is so stupid.
Make some music!

Angstrom
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Re: Live 10 around the corner?

Post by Angstrom » Mon Mar 27, 2017 10:24 pm

Well I guess my impression is from Ableton promo materials. EG, the bit above where I wished for routing snapshots etc. I suddenly wondered if Push could actually do that . I searched and this is abletons video about Push 2 control of routing.
https://youtu.be/ODRWqF02PxA

I think that demonstrates my point.
The topic I am interested in, audio and midi routing? "Sample that vinyl into Simpler and slice it into beats!"
That is a very representative video of what this product is pitched as.

I know other people use it for other things, but I'm loathe to spend £650 just to find out . I just dont have that cash spare for a guess.

mekanism1200
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Re: Live 10 around the corner?

Post by mekanism1200 » Tue Mar 28, 2017 1:30 am

Angstrom wrote:
its actually very simple. drag to define the duration of silence you want to insert and then control+i to insert it
Image

or do it from the Create menu. if you are a masochist
Wow, not sure how I missed that! Thanks!

yonhorizon
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Re: Live 10 around the corner?

Post by yonhorizon » Sat Apr 01, 2017 2:36 pm

yes.
the update pace , compared to bigwig, reaper, cubase, mixbus, studio one. is like turtle slow

I mean its like they really afraid to add features, cause its working as it is.

BUT COME ON

I mean, simple stuff, like mouse wheel use, custom keyboard commands, better browser with tagging, better high res support.

I mean theres a lot of stuff that don't seem like they should take years to implement, but nothing happening.
yes Ableton have this nice webpage, updated every week, but the dialogue with the costumers, and addressing the feature requests seems non existant.
isn't reputation is the most important factor for a company?

if it wasn't for push, I would have been bitwig long time ago. with push its the only daw that gives you amazing hands off computer control. you can just jam your ideas away.

Stefan Jantschek
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Re: Live 10 around the corner?

Post by Stefan Jantschek » Sat Apr 01, 2017 5:36 pm

yonhorizon wrote: I mean, simple stuff, like mouse wheel use, custom keyboard commands, better browser with tagging, better high res support.
Totally agree!

Especially the blurry fonts are stretching my patience to it´s limit every day.
My 4k notebook is reaching the 3rd working year...(!)

Like you said:
COME ON, GUYS!

...

antic604
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Re: Live 10 around the corner?

Post by antic604 » Wed May 17, 2017 10:57 am

mekanism1200 wrote:
Angstrom wrote:
its actually very simple. drag to define the duration of silence you want to insert and then control+i to insert it
Image

or do it from the Create menu. if you are a masochist
Wow, not sure how I missed that! Thanks!
Most likely by not RTFM... :P

stratusseeker
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Re: Live 10 around the corner?

Post by stratusseeker » Mon Sep 18, 2017 4:16 pm

mekanism1200 wrote:If I had it my way I would disable the session view altogether. I just dont use it, and sold my Push because I was basically forced to follow that workflow. I suppose I would have been better off with a linear DAW like like Cubase or Logic. However, Ableton was easy to start out on and everything seemed logical and the UI is simple and well placed. My first intro to DAW's was Reason 2.0 and while you can create sounds very quickly the UI can get confusing and scrolling through machines gets old.

For 10 I hope they provide some updates to the arrangement section, make editing of multiple tracks easier and for the love of all things under the sun allow an "Insert Time" so I dont have to grab half of my projects arrangement with 30+ tracks just to move it over 8 bars to create dead space!

Also I would really like tabbed projects...imagine being able to grab a previous versions' track data into a newer version because you "took things a little too far" with that preset and completely muffed the mix.

Unsolicited advice here, but I also think that if Ableton does not give us arrangement section updates in the next version, it would really help your workflow to try a more traditional DAW. It might take some time to learn a new program, but there's a lot of power in using a traditional DAW that Ableton (so far...) hasn't added to arrangement view.

My question is, does Ableton want us to finish our tracks in another DAW, or they working on some amazing arrangement page ideas that will blow our minds soon? I'm hoping for the latter in Live 10!

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