The future of Live - should we worry? (video)

Discussion of anything not related to audio or music production
sporkles
Posts: 3189
Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2007 8:43 pm
Location: Schmocation

The future of Live - should we worry? (video)

Post by sporkles » Fri Apr 07, 2017 7:17 pm

Take a look at this video by Daniel James. Particularly from about 5 minutes on. Should we be concerned? I mean, we've all seen the huge Push focus lately, but haven't we been hoping that Ableton would eventually cater to users that have other needs and wishes than just "making beats"? Also, is there any reason why Ableton should open up like that to one particular user and leave the rest of us in the dark?

The features Daniel lists as reasons for moving to Cubase are among the top requested ones in the beta and suggestions forums, so one has to start wondering if we've been wasting our time, and it does kind of feel like a slap in the face when we can only speculate about Live's future and a profiled user gets the low down (although he doesn't say anything about how specific Ableton were in their reply).

Having said all that, I feel like even with Live's shortcomings, learning another DAW at this point would be a lot more detrimental to me, so I guess I'm more in the "the best DAW" is the one you know" camp myself, but only because I don't have the motivation to switch to a new DAW. Also, I feel that the third party "supplements" are a great asset that speaks in Live's favour (think NativeKontrol, Isotonik, etc.)

I'm going to keep hoping for some love for those of us who want beefed up MIDI capabilities a little while longer, and if Ableton don't deliver, I'm just going to shrug and keep using Live after all. The question is if I'll keep throwing money in that direction.

beats me
Posts: 23319
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2007 6:39 pm

Re: The future of Live - should we worry? (video)

Post by beats me » Fri Apr 07, 2017 7:35 pm

Ableton has found big success in its niche and doesn’t need to be all things to all music producers. I don’t think they really have a problem with competition filling in the gaps they are missing. Plus its less different types of users they need to please.

yur2die4
Posts: 6428
Joined: Sat Oct 03, 2009 3:02 am
Location: Menasha, Wisconsin
Contact:

Re: The future of Live - should we worry? (video)

Post by yur2die4 » Fri Apr 07, 2017 9:16 pm

Live is awesome as an instrument.

I do encourage the developers to continue enhancing arrangement possibilities, but it will soon get to appoint where they might need a big fat switch that allows people to switch between 'modes'.

I love Live because of what it has at the beginning phase. I feel it offers elements that no other daw has. They have to juggle between retaining that and making it proficient in arranging. Of course the issue is that arranging in Live is far less CPU efficient than in other daws. So when you begin shifting the emphasis you need to decide how far to shift that emphasis, and whether or not it would 'break' the initial elements that are the reasons why people started choosing Live in the first place.

If they shift too far into the direction of other DAWs, then people will inevitably choose those other daws over Live since they are better at it and more dedicated to that function in the first place.

What is the future of Live? Hopefully as an instrument first. And with that concept, meaning that it can as efficiently as within means of comfort and quality possible allow people to fluidly interact with it as a 'not necessarily linear' musical tool with access to many creative options without having to be interrupted.

FrancoBlanko
Posts: 27
Joined: Thu Nov 14, 2013 2:19 pm

Re: The future of Live - should we worry? (video)

Post by FrancoBlanko » Fri Apr 07, 2017 9:45 pm

What is the future of Life?

cfr
Posts: 25
Joined: Wed Apr 17, 2013 5:00 pm

Re: The future of Live - should we worry? (video)

Post by cfr » Sat Apr 08, 2017 6:55 am


Stefan Jantschek
Posts: 168
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 12:01 pm
Location: Berlin

Re: The future of Live - should we worry? (video)

Post by Stefan Jantschek » Sat Apr 08, 2017 7:03 am

Could anyone please tell me how Cubase works on a high DPI/Windows system?

login
Posts: 1817
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2011 12:41 am

Re: The future of Live - should we worry? (video)

Post by login » Sat Apr 08, 2017 7:42 am

I make classical music with Push, can't understand the whole "it is for beats" mentality, seems so short sighted.

That being said I don't live is the best for orchestral music, it is more cpu heavy than others and as the video states there are some MIDI features missing.

hps909
Posts: 233
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2005 10:09 am

Re: The future of Live - should we worry? (video)

Post by hps909 » Sat Apr 08, 2017 8:17 am

live has gone back to being more to a performance sequencer after briefly flirting with the idea of being a serious DAW
macbook pro 2.5 i5 os 10.12 , TC Electronik Konnekt 48, Live 9, Cubase 9, event 20/20, Waldorf Blofeld, roland tb-03, roland Jx-03, korg mikrokontrol, novation nocturn, akai lpd8

Angstrom
Posts: 14674
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2004 2:22 pm
Contact:

Re: The future of Live - should we worry? (video)

Post by Angstrom » Sat Apr 08, 2017 8:25 am

The "it's for beats mentality" is Ableton's. Just look at their promo materials. Look at the recent changes to simpler. Everything is moving toward "beatmaking" or sampling off a record. Sure, you might be doing classical on push, and I might do surf polkas, but the fact remains they are not Ableton's focus. Look at their promos. Live is selling to that huge market segment the "bedroom producer" the person who wants to make Mad Beatz with LoopPacks and will pay for the convenience. The whole thing is then covered with an Instagram sheen. Just look at the company direction now.

This dude is correct.
Ableton will never turn away the orchestral, the barbershop quartet, or the klezmagarage musician, but they are going to add new features of ... vintage drum machinss2, DJ Richdad's 18 kicking sub basses in one megapack!

Stefan Jantschek
Posts: 168
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 12:01 pm
Location: Berlin

Re: The future of Live - should we worry? (video)

Post by Stefan Jantschek » Sat Apr 08, 2017 9:24 am

Angstrom wrote:This dude is correct.
Ableton will never turn away the orchestral, the barbershop quartet, or the klezmagarage musician, but they are going to add new features of ... vintage drum machinss2, DJ Richdad's 18 kicking sub basses in one megapack!
So, targeting "wannabe DJ Richdads"?
I really love your writing style, :lol:

But:

I can´t agree that this is a matter of music styles.
There is a big confusion about Abletons delivery on essentials.
The lack of up-to-date key commands, the lack of user-style preferences, the high dpi issues, the "historical" undo-history etc. do have the same impact on every style of music.

Just so many aspects where L9 seems outdated.

Why does it take so unpredictable long to get these things up-to-date?
Shure, stability is more important for a performance software than features.
But there are dozens of devs working every day on one single App -
for years - and almost nothing gets public?
That´s IMHO the basic question about the future of Live.

Stromkraft
Posts: 7033
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:34 am

Re: The future of Live - should we worry? (video)

Post by Stromkraft » Sat Apr 08, 2017 10:30 am

I'm not worried. I just make my music with the great tools there are.

In general I see no crashes, no stuttering in my Live 9.7.1 installation on macOS 10.12.4 and I can route around the limitations there are in order to get to what I like to do, which is making music. Could things be better? Certainly. This is always true.

I don't see any lure with other DAWs currently, except Bitwig for which I do worry. May they stay competitive…
Make some music!

doghouse
Posts: 1413
Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2008 5:30 pm

Re: The future of Live - should we worry? (video)

Post by doghouse » Sat Apr 08, 2017 12:25 pm

Cubase started thirty years ago as a MIDI sequencer, Live started as an audio only program for live use. So there should be no surprise that Cubase is far superior in MIDI features while Live is more focused on audio and, um, live use.

I have both and simply hate Cubase because it's overly complicated. If I ran a pro recording studio it would be great but I don't. When do I use Cubase? When I need really detailed MIDI editing...which thankfully is not too often.

Stefan Jantschek
Posts: 168
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 12:01 pm
Location: Berlin

Re: The future of Live - should we worry? (video)

Post by Stefan Jantschek » Sat Apr 08, 2017 1:27 pm

Stromkraft wrote:I'm not worried. I just make my music with the great tools there are.
In general I see no crashes, no stuttering in my Live 9.7.1 installation on macOS 10.12.4 and I can route around the limitations there are in order to get to what I like to do, which is making music. Could things be better? Certainly. This is always true.
My general experience too.
If there wouldn´t be the display problems.
Lucky Apple User, you´re not affected.
I had a dialog with support about that more than two years ago,
nothing changed since then.

I do have now 3 options:

a) I just make my music with the great tools there are.

means:
I am at 120% display zoom now.
Still i have problems to see if it´s 5, 6, or 8.
And after 8h working days my eyes look like i´m boozy.

b) Change my system to something below 4K.

means:
Stepping backwards because of one App slow behind the time.

c) Wait for a fix

I am doing that already since i talked to support.

What do you suggest?

Grill Pheiss
Posts: 106
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2015 2:13 pm

Re: The future of Live - should we worry? (video)

Post by Grill Pheiss » Sat Apr 08, 2017 2:11 pm

-
Last edited by Grill Pheiss on Sat Apr 08, 2017 2:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Grill Pheiss
Posts: 106
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2015 2:13 pm

Re: The future of Live - should we worry? (video)

Post by Grill Pheiss » Sat Apr 08, 2017 2:11 pm

Stefan Jantschek wrote:
Angstrom wrote:This dude is correct.
Ableton will never turn away the orchestral, the barbershop quartet, or the klezmagarage musician, but they are going to add new features of ... vintage drum machinss2, DJ Richdad's 18 kicking sub basses in one megapack!
So, targeting "wannabe DJ Richdads"?
I really love your writing style, :lol:

But:

I can´t agree that this is a matter of music styles.
There is a big confusion about Abletons delivery on essentials.
The lack of up-to-date key commands, the lack of user-style preferences, the high dpi issues, the "historical" undo-history etc. do have the same impact on every style of music.

Just so many aspects where L9 seems outdated.

Why does it take so unpredictable long to get these things up-to-date?
Shure, stability is more important for a performance software than features.
But there are dozens of devs working every day on one single App -
for years - and almost nothing gets public?
That´s IMHO the basic question about the future of Live.
It is. and all users need is definitiv clarity on what to expect, so they can make an informed choice wether to stay on this boat or not.

Post Reply