Who is using 4K monitors ?

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aklisiewicz
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Who is using 4K monitors ?

Post by aklisiewicz » Mon Apr 24, 2017 7:15 pm

For those who use 4k monitors - my question is how you manage your mouse on the screen ?
Since I upgraded to Live9 I'm suffering from Live not being able to manage mouse on the screen. It is probably Windows10 issue but still ABLETON needs to resolve this somehow. For my it is terribly agrevating when I try to move the slider or the knob and it just spins in place or makes completely unpredictable movements. Initially I was not able to use LIVE9 at all. After changing the ZOOM it helped a bit but still have issues. It is terribly irritating. I use Win10/64 and 2x4k monitors + 1xHD monitor all on a single 4 ports video card.

I know for some programs one can set the option to disable resizing (in Win10) but not sure how to apply this to plugins because they are not called directly from OS but through Live calls so it is completely different way the DLL plugin is initiated. Some of the plugins are impossible to use simply because the fonts are so fckn small I cannot read anything.

I reported this issue several times to ABLETON but got no help at all.

I wonder if anybody has some workaround ???
"You are what you think you are"
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digitalgeist
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Re: Who is using 4K monitors ?

Post by digitalgeist » Tue Apr 25, 2017 1:10 pm

I have a Mac Pro with dual monitors, one is a 4k monitor. Other than the text being so damn small on the screen at full resolution, no problems with Live or my mouse. 4k resolution requires a lot of real estate (bigger screen size) to really be functional. Anything under about 25" is useless imho. It will wreck your eyes. I use the second input on my 4k monitor to play console video games... ;)
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Stromkraft
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Re: Who is using 4K monitors ?

Post by Stromkraft » Tue Apr 25, 2017 2:38 pm

digitalgeist wrote:I have a Mac Pro with dual monitors, one is a 4k monitor. Other than the text being so damn small on the screen at full resolution, no problems with Live or my mouse. 4k resolution requires a lot of real estate (bigger screen size) to really be functional. Anything under about 25" is useless imho. It will wreck your eyes. I use the second input on my 4k monitor to play console video games... ;)
Why must the 4k monitor run Live in 4k? Doesn't it emulate other resolutions? If the detail is too small to be usable, why you need this for active? I'm not running my non 4k display in native resolution…
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aklisiewicz
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Re: Who is using 4K monitors ?

Post by aklisiewicz » Tue Apr 25, 2017 3:54 pm

My monitors are big enough for 4K. I use my PC for other things (no music only) so it seems obvious that since the card and monitor supports it to use 4K mode. Mac and Windows are different and I think the issues are related to OS so this might no apply to any Mac users. When I switch display mode to HD there are no issues at all but I cannot keep switching my PC several times a day back and forth just to be able to work with LIVE properly, this has to be fixed. Yesterday I tried do do some work and it drives me crazy when I try to push the slider up and suddenly it goes to 0, or knobs going up and down like crazy. The only way I can adjust it smoothly is using the keyboard and UP/DOWN arrows, but this is very cumbersome. When I try to ZOOM in/out with the mouse similar things happen and this is terribly frustrating. Ableton told me once that this is Windows10 issue but I'm in the middle between Microsoft and Ableton and I'm not able to modify/fix either one.

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Shift Gorden
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Re: Who is using 4K monitors ?

Post by Shift Gorden » Tue Apr 25, 2017 6:40 pm

My studio has my MacBook Pro hooked up to two 4K monitors - absolutely no problems with resolution. My output is set to automatic scaling which keeps everything nice a smooth (and a decent) size.

I bet it's a resolution setting on the computer. If I were to override automatic scaling and select the actual 4K resolution, everything would be teeny tiny.

Sorry dude - that's frustrating.

Stromkraft
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Re: Who is using 4K monitors ?

Post by Stromkraft » Tue Apr 25, 2017 8:33 pm

aklisiewicz wrote:My monitors are big enough for 4K. I use my PC for other things (no music only) so it seems obvious that since the card and monitor supports it to use 4K mode. Mac and Windows are different and I think the issues are related to OS so this might no apply to any Mac users. When I switch display mode to HD there are no issues at all but I cannot keep switching my PC several times a day back and forth just to be able to work with LIVE properly, this has to be fixed. Yesterday I tried do do some work and it drives me crazy when I try to push the slider up and suddenly it goes to 0, or knobs going up and down like crazy. The only way I can adjust it smoothly is using the keyboard and UP/DOWN arrows, but this is very cumbersome. When I try to ZOOM in/out with the mouse similar things happen and this is terribly frustrating. Ableton told me once that this is Windows10 issue but I'm in the middle between Microsoft and Ableton and I'm not able to modify/fix either one.
Yeah, I'm agreeing this needs solving, but it seems to be the interaction of OS, display and driver and application, not to mention plug-in GUI libraries (or simply native GUI) that are behind the complexity of this issue.

I'd assume what you want from Ableton is the Live GUI elements to adapt to the actual resolution and maintain "physical" size? You're not asking from them to fix the window and GUI element sizes of various plug-ins? I'd think the latter is bordering on quite complex. But that's just a guess really.

I have a feeling this issue can't be solved until Live 10. Probably compatibility with previous OS versions is less likely then as I believe this kind of problem must rely on the OS to a certain extent. I hope I'm wrong though and that the solution is simple to fix once someone gets the insight.
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aklisiewicz
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Re: Who is using 4K monitors ?

Post by aklisiewicz » Tue Apr 25, 2017 9:23 pm

There is one interesting thing I noticed. When I use plugins which open in separate windows there is no issue with the knobs and sliders. This simply proves that there is something in ABLETON software (libraries etc) that is not compatible with the screen resolution. Somehow every external plugin works fine in that matter although there is an issue you've mentioned with the plugins not resizing to the readable size). On some it is pain on the butt to work with the mouse. I keep one of the 3 monitors at lower resolution and move all plugin widows there so I can see better. ABLETON explains that the issue is related to the OS itself. I'm not gonna argue with that but the fact is that it is not working to the point that I would not buy ABLETON product today (knowing about this problem). If I open REAKTOR for example and keep it on the same screen, I have no problems with knobs at all ! IT only happens in Live and drives me nuts.

You are right about the plugins they should scale up properly as well. That is obviously something that other vendors need to implement and I don't expect Ableton to change that. There will be however nice to have a ZOOM feature to zomm in/out particular plugin window (like we can do the main window). I just installed CATHULHU plugin. It has simple feature on the menu to size it up to 200% and it makes things very easy to read and see.

ART
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digitalgeist
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Re: Who is using 4K monitors ?

Post by digitalgeist » Wed Apr 26, 2017 4:21 pm

Stromkraft wrote:
digitalgeist wrote:I have a Mac Pro with dual monitors, one is a 4k monitor. Other than the text being so damn small on the screen at full resolution, no problems with Live or my mouse. 4k resolution requires a lot of real estate (bigger screen size) to really be functional. Anything under about 25" is useless imho. It will wreck your eyes. I use the second input on my 4k monitor to play console video games... ;)
Why must the 4k monitor run Live in 4k? Doesn't it emulate other resolutions? If the detail is too small to be usable, why you need this for active? I'm not running my non 4k display in native resolution…
No, it's only if I go to full resolution that it's too small. I scale it back to make it comfortable.
--
Thanks!
Alex K/ Digital Geist

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Stromkraft
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Re: Who is using 4K monitors ?

Post by Stromkraft » Wed Apr 26, 2017 8:40 pm

digitalgeist wrote:
Stromkraft wrote:
digitalgeist wrote:I have a Mac Pro with dual monitors, one is a 4k monitor. Other than the text being so damn small on the screen at full resolution, no problems with Live or my mouse. 4k resolution requires a lot of real estate (bigger screen size) to really be functional. Anything under about 25" is useless imho. It will wreck your eyes. I use the second input on my 4k monitor to play console video games... ;)
Why must the 4k monitor run Live in 4k? Doesn't it emulate other resolutions? If the detail is too small to be usable, why you need this for active? I'm not running my non 4k display in native resolution…
No, it's only if I go to full resolution that it's too small. I scale it back to make it comfortable.
I wonder if you could trig a resolution switch when getting Live on the screen. Would that be helpful? I think I had something like that with some other app I used years ago.
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aklisiewicz
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Re: Who is using 4K monitors ?

Post by aklisiewicz » Thu Apr 27, 2017 3:09 am

Stromkraft - I am not sure what you mean, but if you are talking about some software which will switch between resolutions - would be nice however I have 3 monitors. 2 x 4k and one standard HD so it would be hard, but even if I could change back and forth easily on two monitors it would do the job. The other issues is that I paid $600 per unit so using low res now would really suck, knowing I wasted my money (at least for Abe).


Art
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mbakirov
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Re: Who is using 4K monitors ?

Post by mbakirov » Wed May 03, 2017 5:05 am

aklisiewicz wrote:For those who use 4k monitors - my question is how you manage your mouse on the screen ?
Since I upgraded to Live9 I'm suffering from Live not being able to manage mouse on the screen. It is probably Windows10 issue but still ABLETON needs to resolve this somehow. For my it is terribly agrevating when I try to move the slider or the knob and it just spins in place or makes completely unpredictable movements. Initially I was not able to use LIVE9 at all. After changing the ZOOM it helped a bit but still have issues. It is terribly irritating. I use Win10/64 and 2x4k monitors + 1xHD monitor all on a single 4 ports video card.

I know for some programs one can set the option to disable resizing (in Win10) but not sure how to apply this to plugins because they are not called directly from OS but through Live calls so it is completely different way the DLL plugin is initiated. Some of the plugins are impossible to use simply because the fonts are so fckn small I cannot read anything.

I reported this issue several times to ABLETON but got no help at all.

I wonder if anybody has some workaround ???

on windows 10 i used compatibility mode

there is a setting called "override high dpi scaling behaviour"

and then i rely on Live own scaling.

bad thing though is that vst plugins are not scaled ..

i am on full hd though and not 4K.

plopseaw
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Re: Who is using 4K monitors ?

Post by plopseaw » Wed May 03, 2017 11:21 am

I had exactly the same issue making live unusable on high DPI monitor. One solution I found for pen (perhaps also applies to mouse) is to set the -absolute flag in Abletons options.txt file. For me using a pen this made changing values on Live much easier but didn't work for plugins live Maschine.

#1thelark
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Reason 10 with 4K, unusable or are there any tweaks?

Post by #1thelark » Sun Dec 17, 2017 11:01 am

Hi guys, I have a 4k screen and fell for the Reason 10 videos and blackfriday deal on their upgrade. Do you guys know any tweaks to preserve 4k resolution and only zoom the Reason Rack to make it usable? I can zoom the GUI to 250% and then Reason and the Rack is usable, but that makes my 4k screen size match a 1280 monitor from year 2000, and you cannot use anything else with that resolution which is pointless with a 4k monitor.

Tarekith
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Re: Who is using 4K monitors ?

Post by Tarekith » Sun Dec 17, 2017 4:27 pm

This is the Ableton forum, you get get a better answer asking on the Propellorhead forums no?

#1thelark
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Re: Who is using 4K monitors ?

Post by #1thelark » Sun Dec 17, 2017 9:42 pm

Afaik they closed the propellerhead community / forums.
But anyone with 4k screens can relate to this problem.

I would not have a problem if i had 4 fullhd screens i could place the rack on one of them and lower the resolution. But with one 4k screen I cant seem to achieve that, maybe someone can name a proper software tool to accomplish that?
So name your tricks and tweaks for high res screens please (win 10 user).

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