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 Post subject: Ableton Live UI survey SECOND EDITION
PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 12:32 pm 

Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2017 8:58 am
Posts: 18
Hey guys,
in my last survey, some of you pointed out that I asked questions in a condescending way, so I revisited and updated the questions in this version.

Please consider taking the survey again, I really wanna know what you guys think. https://goo.gl/forms/jhhkdjAoLnggmeAz2

Thanks,
Nenad.


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 Post subject: Re: Ableton Live UI survey SECOND EDITION
PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2017 9:51 pm 

Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2014 5:29 pm
Posts: 148
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan U.S.
Just finished the survey.


Why does this keep getting moved to the lounge.

According to the rules of this forum this post is completely on topic with Ableton and music production. This person would get more responses if the mod who moved this would have left it where it was.

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 Post subject: Re: Ableton Live UI survey SECOND EDITION
PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2017 11:46 pm 

Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2005 11:46 pm
Posts: 16379
Location: Ableton Forum Administrator
Emanresu0891 wrote:
Why does this keep getting moved to the lounge.


Because it's not about music and audio production, it's a user asking for feedback on his graphic design skills.

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InnerPortalStudio.com - Professional Audio Mastering


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 Post subject: Re: Ableton Live UI survey SECOND EDITION
PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2017 12:26 am 

Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2004 2:22 pm
Posts: 14138
I think just going to Berlin and having a job interview would be a better way of asking for a job. Ableton are always advertising, so just go and do it properly. Not this weirdness.

Personally I'm not a fan of these designs. Additionally I'm not impressed (sorry) by the "skinning" methodology of UI design, especially evident in the browser skin

It suggests a mentality/ strategy of designing from what the familiar, and merely iterating stylistically. That's not what's needed. It's the problem they already have and any applicant will surely need to show more ingenuity than just skinning. I suggest thinking a little more about user intent, and consider information-architecture up, think about what metadata they have *(currrently unrepresented), think about the many and varied user needs and how they might be satisfied.

EG: A better method of opening a door is not a blue doorknob with a futuristic and subtle looking keyhole.
A better way of opening a door is based on an idea: That the door recognises a valid person and lets them in, the improved interface is completely transparent, invisible. It seems to be gone That's the intent. Less hassle, less friction. Not "look at me".
These designs all look like design which is too keen on being noticed. A shiny blue doorknob with an inset keyhole.

I respect the user is self-motivated and looking for a job, but perhaps needs to take a different approach

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 Post subject: Re: Ableton Live UI survey SECOND EDITION
PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2017 1:12 am 

Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2005 11:46 pm
Posts: 16379
Location: Ableton Forum Administrator
I thought it was an interesting idea. Maybe phrased a bit weird initially, but soliciting feedback based on real world examples can be a useful technique to improve your skills I suppose. At least he got more feedback reddit from the looks of things.

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InnerPortalStudio.com - Professional Audio Mastering


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 Post subject: Re: Ableton Live UI survey SECOND EDITION
PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2017 8:05 am 

Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2017 8:58 am
Posts: 18
Hey guys thanks for your responses. Yeah, everything is good, I got plenty of feedback. Reddit, Facebook groups, gearslutz...

@Angstrom
Thanks for your comment, but you confused me a bit.

Quote:
Weirdness
Aren't we suppose to be different, creative, and proactive?
Quote:
just skinning
Hmm, how is, just to name a few, Detail Slider, History of undo steps, Snapshots, or Workspace saving just skinning?

Maybe you didn't understand the point of this. This is not a better UI or something, it's just a way to show my skills, how I think, and do things. Even if I don't get a job at Ableton I'll do this because I love designing and I love Ableton Live. I learned a lot from this experience and I would encourage anybody to do a similar thing.

Cheers,
Nenad.


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 Post subject: Re: Ableton Live UI survey SECOND EDITION
PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2017 9:46 am 

Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2016 7:08 pm
Posts: 362
nndmlsvc wrote:
Quote:
Weirdness
Aren't we suppose to be different, creative, and proactive?

Not for the sake of being "different, creative, and proactive" alone, no.

Quote:

Quote:
just skinning
Hmm, how is, just to name a few, Detail Slider, History of undo steps, Snapshots, or Workspace saving just skinning?


Those are nice and have partly been asked for for a decade by us users, but they have nothing to do with what a designer would be tasked with.
But in itself it's not a bad idea to take the most requested feature requests (there is a whole sub forum here filled to the brim with them) and make a design that would enable them if Ableton ever did implement them.


Just a side note:
You seem to get easily defensive, this is not a trait I would necessarily show on the forum of the company I want to work for. The person who you want to hire you might be reading 8)


Last edited by TomKern on Tue May 23, 2017 9:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Ableton Live UI survey SECOND EDITION
PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2017 9:55 am 

Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2017 8:58 am
Posts: 18
I do think I need to defend my ideas in terms of explaining them. Who would do that if I'm not doing it? 8)

Quote:
have nothing to do with what a designer is tasked with


I know from experience that ideas come from everybody. There's nothing wrong if an idea for a feature comes from a designer. Check this short video to get an idea how things work https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fpggknHC2c

Cheers,
Nenad.


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 Post subject: Re: Ableton Live UI survey SECOND EDITION
PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2017 9:58 am 

Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2016 7:08 pm
Posts: 362
Defending your ideas is not she same as getting defensive. Not by a long shot

If I were the HR rep and had just read how you comported yourself in dialog with the users here ( users that you asked for help, I might add) I would already be disinclined to hire you.

Because at the end of the day it is more important to have a friendly work environment with people who know how to respond to criticism, than to have that one talented designer, who is a drama queen stinking up the whole workplace.


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 Post subject: Re: Ableton Live UI survey SECOND EDITION
PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2017 10:28 am 

Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2017 8:58 am
Posts: 18
I'm sorry, I didn't want to sound rude, defensive or... weird!? 8O I just wanted to explain why I did all of this.


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 Post subject: Re: Ableton Live UI survey SECOND EDITION
PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2017 10:34 am 

Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2016 7:08 pm
Posts: 362
8)
It's all good, it was just a tip to also look at how people who might hire you, might read what you are writing here. I mean this thread could basically already be part of your application process at Ableton.
And soft skills matter to HR A LOT. And for good reason!


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 Post subject: Re: Ableton Live UI survey SECOND EDITION
PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2017 10:47 am 

Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2017 8:14 am
Posts: 454
Location: Warsaw, Poland
@nndmlsvc, good luck landing the job (or at least an internship) in Ableton.

What I liked:
- the visual overhaul, which makes it similar to Studio One in terms of flatness and detail,
- some of the ideas, e.g. zoom and level-of-detail right there on the main screen, extended mixer with devices, more detail in the clips view, undo history

What I'd love to see next:
- ideas for arrangement and MIDI editor, because I spend most time there :)
- a mixed session / arrangement view, like in Bitwig,
- a Ideas View, like in Maschine 2.6.5,
- a separate overview of routing - both for the mixer and for device chains, because it can easily get very confusing very quickly,
- layered clip editor,
- layered automation lines,
- mixed audio / midi tracks, with bounce-in-place,
- a 'tool' to create a native device for 3rd party plugins - basically a collection of knobs, sliders, buttons and dials that can be mapped to chosen parameters of any VST and arranged to resemble Live's native devices,


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 Post subject: Re: Ableton Live UI survey SECOND EDITION
PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2017 11:12 am 

Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2017 8:58 am
Posts: 18
Thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: Ableton Live UI survey SECOND EDITION
PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 5:19 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 12:29 pm
Posts: 1189
Location: Norway
Hi! I'm not a designer, but I hope my feedback helps.

Good:

I see some very nice ideas for implementations:
- Clips: waveform, info and playbar indicator (instead of pie at the bottom of the track, like we have now)
- Customizable header with useful settings
- Mixer view with inline EQ and selectable parameters directly accessible.
- Expanded browser with attributes and tags
- Undo history and snapshots

Bad:
(Going by this one: http://nenadmilosevic.co/temp/ableton/f ... s@full.png)
- Everything looks a lot messier than before. Maybe too many high-saturation colours competing for my attention? Maybe everything looks too similar?

I would also like to see what's requested by antic604, and to see what the more minimalistic settings would look like.

Best of luck to you! I'm impressed by your work and effort.

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 Post subject: Re: Ableton Live UI survey SECOND EDITION
PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 6:16 pm 

Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2017 8:58 am
Posts: 18
Cool! Very helpful.
Thanks.


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