All times are UTC

 
 



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 36 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Vst 3 support in Live. When?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 11:15 pm 

Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2010 5:17 pm
Posts: 121
Hi there.
Does anyone knows when ableton is going to support vst 3?
It's taking ableton a bit looooooooooong tiiiiiiimeeeee to adjuuuuust


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Vst 3 support in Live. When?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 12:17 pm 

Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2008 5:30 pm
Posts: 1289
There's still very little VST3 support across all DAWs.

I only cared when I owned a Motif XF and the VST editor wouldn't run in Live. Some users even had problems running it in any VST3 DAW other than Cubase.

Thank goodness most plugins that are VST3 compatible also come with VST2 versions.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Vst 3 support in Live. When?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 6:12 pm 

Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:34 am
Posts: 7055
spanktron wrote:
Hi there.
Does anyone knows when ableton is going to support vst 3?
It's taking ableton a bit looooooooooong tiiiiiiimeeeee to adjuuuuust


I think there are good reasons for this that I believe you can find in the already existing VST3 thread.

When it comes to so called "standards" support, there are much assumptions going around. This subject is no different.

_________________
Make some music!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Vst 3 support in Live. When?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 9:51 pm 

Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2010 5:17 pm
Posts: 121
Stromkraft wrote:
spanktron wrote:
Hi there.
Does anyone knows when ableton is going to support vst 3?
It's taking ableton a bit looooooooooong tiiiiiiimeeeee to adjuuuuust


I think there are good reasons for this that I believe you can find in the already existing VST3 thread.

When it comes to so called "standards" support, there are much assumptions going around. This subject is no different.


I did read this thread you mention. And i still don't understand why not. It was another argumentation. The fact that Bitwig (correct me if i am wrong) offers vst 3 support gives me the feeling that Bitwig evolved while Live basically looks the same to me the last 5-6 years apart from some bugfixes. I mean the update from 8 to 9 was not really something big evolutionwise. There is almost nothing i can do in 9 that i couldn't do in 8. but apart from all i write, basically the most useful information for me would be information about "when?" or "if, then when?" will there be support just as i asked. Why someone wishes for it to become true or finds it not useful is not what i ask. Imagine a world where people give answers that are relative to the questions. What a dreamworld it could be. :o


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Vst 3 support in Live. When?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 9:56 pm 

Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2010 5:17 pm
Posts: 121
doghouse wrote:
There's still very little VST3 support across all DAWs.

I only cared when I owned a Motif XF and the VST editor wouldn't run in Live. Some users even had problems running it in any VST3 DAW other than Cubase.

Thank goodness most plugins that are VST3 compatible also come with VST2 versions.



Yes, on one hand nice that they come with vst 2. On the other hand, so you think that vst 3 should be abandoned cause of the bumpy start?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Vst 3 support in Live. When?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 10:41 pm 

Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:34 am
Posts: 7055
spanktron wrote:
The fact that Bitwig (correct me if i am wrong) offers vst 3 support gives me the feeling that Bitwig evolved while Live basically looks the same to me the last 5-6 years apart from some bugfixes. I mean the update from 8 to 9 was not really something big evolutionwise.


If you really think that you don't even know Live 9 or you just use what you used to. 9.2 was the revolution where Live 9 came into fruition. C'mon, delay compensation for automation is big!

Also, I don't think you read the other thread and the links posted there very well, if you're confused why this is how it is with VST3 support among DAWs.

It will hopefully be nice when Ableton adds support for VST 3, but even so, my feeling is that this is not at the top priority level for a majority of users. Granted, some producers really need or want VST3 for various reasons and the number is likely to be growing, and Ableton are very aware of this I think.

Have you voted for VST 3 support over at Centercode?

As for when, only Ableton knows. Maybe any day, week, month or year.

_________________
Make some music!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Vst 3 support in Live. When?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 5:20 am 

Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2004 9:30 pm
Posts: 11015
Location: Seattle
VST3 is the least adopted update to a standard I can think of. There are a few good reasons for it, but it came out 8 years ago, and it's still not widely adopted, I wouldn't count on Ableton supporting it anytime before 2020, or 2030 for that matter.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Vst 3 support in Live. When?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 11:09 am 

Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2017 10:49 am
Posts: 3
2020 or 2030 really? then lots of vst won't be usable on Live...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Vst 3 support in Live. When?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 1:21 pm 

Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2010 5:17 pm
Posts: 121
Stromkraft wrote:
spanktron wrote:
The fact that Bitwig (correct me if i am wrong) offers vst 3 support gives me the feeling that Bitwig evolved while Live basically looks the same to me the last 5-6 years apart from some bugfixes. I mean the update from 8 to 9 was not really something big evolutionwise.


If you really think that you don't even know Live 9 or you just use what you used to. 9.2 was the revolution where Live 9 came into fruition. C'mon, delay compensation for automation is big!

Also, I don't think you read the other thread and the links posted there very well, if you're confused why this is how it is with VST3 support among DAWs.

It will hopefully be nice when Ableton adds support for VST 3, but even so, my feeling is that this is not at the top priority level for a majority of users. Granted, some producers really need or want VST3 for various reasons and the number is likely to be growing, and Ableton are very aware of this I think.

Have you voted for VST 3 support over at Centercode?

As for when, only Ableton knows. Maybe any day, week, month or year.


So you don`t believe me when i say that i have read the thread? Thats a good basis for our communication.
Btw the thread ended up becoming a debate-catfight between people who consider it an important thing (vst3 support in live) to happen
and others trying to convince them that it is not that important.

Regarding delay compensation for automation. This is something that i always heard people talk about here and there. I never really bothered.
When i had delay issues i matched everything manually and never had big issues with it. In my workflow and my eyes not much happened
in ableton with the 8 to 9 update. It`s a matter of personal preference. You can believe me or not.

That being said we are starting a new debate that has nothing to do with my question.
I asked if someone knows when and if it is arriving and not opinions on "is it useful"? or "should it be a priority?" and similar.

When it would be sufficient if someone who has information like "i heard they will do it in 1 year" or "they will never make this happen" etc is what am looking for.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Vst 3 support in Live. When?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 1:21 pm 

Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2010 5:17 pm
Posts: 121
Machinesworking wrote:
VST3 is the least adopted update to a standard I can think of. There are a few good reasons for it, but it came out 8 years ago, and it's still not widely adopted, I wouldn't count on Ableton supporting it anytime before 2020, or 2030 for that matter.




Who knows indeed


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Vst 3 support in Live. When?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 2:26 pm 

Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:34 am
Posts: 7055
spanktron wrote:
So you don`t believe me when i say that i have read the thread? Thats a good basis for our communication.
Btw the thread ended up becoming a debate-catfight between people who consider it an important thing (vst3 support in live) to happen
and others trying to convince them that it is not that important.

Regarding delay compensation for automation. This is something that i always heard people talk about here and there. I never really bothered.
When i had delay issues i matched everything manually and never had big issues with it. In my workflow and my eyes not much happened
in ableton with the 8 to 9 update. It`s a matter of personal preference. You can believe me or not.

That being said we are starting a new debate that has nothing to do with my question.
I asked if someone knows when and if it is arriving and not opinions on "is it useful"? or "should it be a priority?" and similar.

When it would be sufficient if someone who has information like "i heard they will do it in 1 year" or "they will never make this happen" etc is what am looking for.


I said very well, not that you didn't read the other discussion at all and certainly the links (that I think are there). Fact is VST3 support is not widespread and that there are developmental reasons for this, valid or not. Fact is also that that VST2.4 (and AU on the Mac) works quite well. The latter is not a valid reason in itself to not bring VST3 support of course, if there are any, but it lessens the pressure quite considerably on the market.

VST3 discussions
The reason discussions on VST3 support ends up getting side-tracked, I think, is because VST3 support is often requested in a manner where the understanding of the actual situation is not expressed and it's more like "well, everyone else [wrong assumption] supports this so why doesn't Ableton? This can't take away any resources from other more pressing matters [wrong assumption] , because I thought and said so, so why aren't Ableton implementing this right now, the lazy ********?". It's not a helpful manner (exaggerated here) to make requests I think.

In addition, few know the when, if there is one set, or are not in a position to share. So we discuss what can be discussed.

VST3 support in itself is of course a very valid topic and it's natural to ask for improvements of the DAW you'd like to use.

The example of Polyphonic Aftertouch
Surely you do know that polyphonic aftertouch never got implemented in Live? I'd assume there are reasons for this as well, but these are also , as far as I understand it anyway, unknown to this day.

Keep discussing VST3 support
I dont' think it's futile to ask for when VST3 support will come, but all we can do is speculate. Some speculations may be better and more insightful than others, so keep the flame going, but please don't approach the subject as if the reasons for lack of VST3 support are virtually unknown and that it's an open standard (it's not) that costs nothing to implement.

_________________
Make some music!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Vst 3 support in Live. When?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 11:45 am 

Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2010 5:17 pm
Posts: 121
Stromkraft wrote:
spanktron wrote:
So you don`t believe me when i say that i have read the thread? Thats a good basis for our communication.
Btw the thread ended up becoming a debate-catfight between people who consider it an important thing (vst3 support in live) to happen
and others trying to convince them that it is not that important.

Regarding delay compensation for automation. This is something that i always heard people talk about here and there. I never really bothered.
When i had delay issues i matched everything manually and never had big issues with it. In my workflow and my eyes not much happened
in ableton with the 8 to 9 update. It`s a matter of personal preference. You can believe me or not.

That being said we are starting a new debate that has nothing to do with my question.
I asked if someone knows when and if it is arriving and not opinions on "is it useful"? or "should it be a priority?" and similar.

When it would be sufficient if someone who has information like "i heard they will do it in 1 year" or "they will never make this happen" etc is what am looking for.


I said very well, not that you didn't read the other discussion at all and certainly the links (that I think are there). Fact is VST3 support is not widespread and that there are developmental reasons for this, valid or not. Fact is also that that VST2.4 (and AU on the Mac) works quite well. The latter is not a valid reason in itself to not bring VST3 support of course, if there are any, but it lessens the pressure quite considerably on the market.

VST3 discussions
The reason discussions on VST3 support ends up getting side-tracked, I think, is because VST3 support is often requested in a manner where the understanding of the actual situation is not expressed and it's more like "well, everyone else [wrong assumption] supports this so why doesn't Ableton? This can't take away any resources from other more pressing matters [wrong assumption] , because I thought and said so, so why aren't Ableton implementing this right now, the lazy ********?". It's not a helpful manner (exaggerated here) to make requests I think.

In addition, few know the when, if there is one set, or are not in a position to share. So we discuss what can be discussed.

VST3 support in itself is of course a very valid topic and it's natural to ask for improvements of the DAW you'd like to use.

The example of Polyphonic Aftertouch
Surely you do know that polyphonic aftertouch never got implemented in Live? I'd assume there are reasons for this as well, but these are also , as far as I understand it anyway, unknown to this day.

Keep discussing VST3 support
I dont' think it's futile to ask for when VST3 support will come, but all we can do is speculate. Some speculations may be better and more insightful than others, so keep the flame going, but please don't approach the subject as if the reasons for lack of VST3 support are virtually unknown and that it's an open standard (it's not) that costs nothing to implement.



I honestly never cared about polyphonic aftertouch. Also delay compensation never saw it as a problem. It`s just priorities and workflow.
Of course all of these questions are luxury level problems. It`s not like i am going to die if VST3 never works in Live

But. I repeat. For the last time :-)
I don`t really want to discuss (in this thread at least, maybe in the future i change my mind) about WHY it doesn`t happen or the problems behind it.

I just basically asked-want to know: DOES ANYONE HAVE INFO AS TO WHEN VST3 IS GOING TO BE SUPPORTED IN LIVE , IF EVER? Simple as that.
I don`t want to sound rude. Just honest. I appreciate that you want to give me all this extra info but right now i don`t have space in my mind.

After 10 year using Live some things i like, some i don`t but in the big picture i am ok with it. In short- it`s pretty awesome
Though if i didn`t have the obstacle of the learning-adjusting curve in order to switch to another platform such as Bitwig (just to have vst3 support and just because i want it right now. A bit like a 3yr old child!) , i would have done it.

So if anyone has info as to WHEN (Vst3 Support in Live) IF EVER.... feel free to let me know.
I am in the middle of finishing some things and can`t afford the time to continue an endless thread about WHY IT`S NOT EASY TO ANSWER....... :-)

I still have love for you all though

Peace


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Vst 3 support in Live. When?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 11:54 am 

Joined: Sun Jul 23, 2017 7:01 am
Posts: 43
Its clear its unknown and I do have some VST3 specific plugins that I cannot use.

I learnt of Bitwig shortly after buying Ableton and I was gutted as it seems like its the next step up from Ableton - new interface, VST 3 support, similar style, setup for touchscreen however after splashing the cash it was too late!! I am happy to use abletone but my next update will be Bitwig after trying it - the very fact that its developed by previous Ableton Live developers says it all really.

Not Dissing Ableton -its great but seems like the new kid in town is Bitwig.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Vst 3 support in Live. When?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 8:37 pm 

Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:34 am
Posts: 7055
strangedaysuk wrote:

Not Dissing Ableton -its great but seems like the new kid in town is Bitwig.


OK. But that's way old and a snooze around here.

Bitwig is simple some unique features with other (sometimes unique) issues just as any other DAW. The question is what you actually need and what problems you can workaround or live with or what features you can forego.

Live licenses can be resold, you know. I'm not selling… :mrgreen:

_________________
Make some music!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Vst 3 support in Live. When?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 8:49 pm 
Site Admin

Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2015 3:04 pm
Posts: 1200
Location: Ableton
To the OP:
No, nobody has any answer about that.
And, you come with a question, this question can lead to a broader discussion, there's no reason for not letting that happening unless it is trolling, which is not the case right here.
All the best dudes.
J.

_________________
Ableton Forum Moderator


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 36 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC

 
 

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group