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 Post subject: Re: Vst 3 support in Live. When?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 8:56 pm 

Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2006 6:18 pm
Posts: 149
At this point the fact that AL doesn't support VST3 is just plain weird. Do they have something against the format? Do they lack the resources to implement VST3 in Live? What's the problem? How hard can it be?

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 Post subject: Re: Vst 3 support in Live. When?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:50 pm 

Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:34 am
Posts: 7055
granted wrote:
At this point the fact that AL doesn't support VST3 is just plain weird. Do they have something against the format? Do they lack the resources to implement VST3 in Live? What's the problem? How hard can it be?


I suggest you read up on the links already in this discussion and in VST3 Support! and the linked "Ableton just lost a push sale.".

Are you an audio developer yourself? Are you familiar with the VST 3 API documentation? If so, enlighten us.

Also this previous response from me in this very discussion — in the VST3 discussions sub header — seem to cover your post quite well: Subject: Vst 3 support in Live. When?

Here are some real world quotes from the VST3 world illustrating that while features are nice in theory, in practice beats theory:

Cprompt on Gearslutz discussion VST vs VST3:

Quote:
"I keep loading the VST3 versions of plugins sometimes in the hope that something magical will happen, but of course it won't and I use the VST2 versions practically all the time."


and here at KVRAudio you can learn from VST3 developer U-he, who are of course not up against the same issues as Ableton are adding VST3 support in a DAW host like Live, but it illustrates things are not so easy and self-evident some of the posters in this and related discussions believe they are.

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 Post subject: Re: Vst 3 support in Live. When?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 11:34 am 

Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2006 6:18 pm
Posts: 149
@Stromkraft - thank you, I'll check those links out.

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 Post subject: Re: Vst 3 support in Live. When?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 4:28 pm 

Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2007 1:55 am
Posts: 1128
Location: Atlanta, Ga
spanktron wrote:
Stromkraft wrote:
spanktron wrote:
Hi there.
Does anyone knows when ableton is going to support vst 3?
It's taking ableton a bit looooooooooong tiiiiiiimeeeee to adjuuuuust


I think there are good reasons for this that I believe you can find in the already existing VST3 thread.

When it comes to so called "standards" support, there are much assumptions going around. This subject is no different.


I did read this thread you mention. And i still don't understand why not. It was another argumentation. The fact that Bitwig (correct me if i am wrong) offers vst 3 support gives me the feeling that Bitwig evolved while Live basically looks the same to me the last 5-6 years apart from some bugfixes. I mean the update from 8 to 9 was not really something big evolutionwise. There is almost nothing i can do in 9 that i couldn't do in 8. but apart from all i write, basically the most useful information for me would be information about "when?" or "if, then when?" will there be support just as i asked. Why someone wishes for it to become true or finds it not useful is not what i ask. Imagine a world where people give answers that are relative to the questions. What a dreamworld it could be. :o




I think that Ableton is probably playing it safe.

1. There are developers who normally make stable software with issues implementing VST3.

2. Every host seems to have a slightly different implementation/interpretation of the spec which is causing bugs. I think even Cubase vs Wavelab don't agree.

3. I think most implementations aren't even using most of the features yet.

4. Many people are saying the spec isn't as clearly defined as VST2 is.

5. There are still a few key players that haven't implemented VST3 yet and more importantly drop VST 2.4. Alot of the folks who haven't implemented it are probably who the alot of people are waiting on (cough NI)

6. We don't know what all is going on behind closed doors (maybe VST 4 is coming out and will be easier to implement). Maybe their is a push for a non vendor based open standard like Midi but for Plug-ins. Maybe all of the hosts could meet to agree on something (probably not likely but who knows).

7. Most likely VST requires a huge rewrite of alot of legacy software in DAWS like Ableton and Plugins like NI. If it was easy they probably would have supported it a long time ago as most hosts adapted to 64 bit in a reasonable amount of time.


On the other hand,

1. VST 3 has been out since 2008
2. Probably the majority of DAWS have VST3 (FL studio, Sonar, Cubase, Reaper, Studio One)
3. Certain popular well known plugins are VST3 only now and are not available in Live (eg Autotune for Windows because Windows don't support AU)
4. If NI comes out with VST3, then Ableton will have alot of pressure to get VST3 working or they will most likely lose some sales (likewise for NI though if they chose to completely stop supporting VST2).



My guess is it is something Ableton is actively looking into this. They either are having some issues or having to rewrite alot of code to get this working, or probably just waiting it out to see when/if the standards get a little clearer. On one hand Ableton needs to stay cutting edge but on the other hand they have to keep their reputation of being a stable DAW. If 10 will be announced pretty soon, we will probably know something about VST3 then.


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 Post subject: Re: Vst 3 support in Live. When?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 5:31 pm 

Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2008 5:30 pm
Posts: 1286
spanktron wrote:
so you think that vst 3 should be abandoned cause of the bumpy start?


No of course not. I am as annoyed as anybody else that DAW mfrs continue to drag their feet. It's a chicken and egg thing...the DAW mfrs are not going to support until some major software vendors start offering only VST3 plugins and the major software vendors are not going to support it until all the major DAWs do.


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 Post subject: Re: Vst 3 support in Live. When?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:48 am 

Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:45 am
Posts: 1
I guess I have to keep switching between Pro Tools and Ableton for vocal mixing. :|


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 Post subject: Re: Vst 3 support in Live. When?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 10:49 am 

Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2010 5:17 pm
Posts: 121
doghouse wrote:
spanktron wrote:
so you think that vst 3 should be abandoned cause of the bumpy start?


No of course not. I am as annoyed as anybody else that DAW mfrs continue to drag their feet. It's a chicken and egg thing...the DAW mfrs are not going to support until some major software vendors start offering only VST3 plugins and the major software vendors are not going to support it until all the major DAWs do.


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 Post subject: Re: Vst 3 support in Live. When?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:21 am 

Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2017 10:16 pm
Posts: 3
Well I just choked into my soup after discovering V10 does not support VST3 - wow ! I was thinking that asking for ARA2 would be a longshot. I've hardly begun to use Live but it will be my project to learn it from April.

So how do we lobby Ableton, is there are feature request thingy here? A major oversight imho (My first post so please be gentle with me).


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 Post subject: Re: Vst 3 support in Live. When?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 2:00 am 

Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2014 7:26 pm
Posts: 1
well folks, I was reading another post somewhere on this very topic. I have personally sent many emails to Ableton (just ask them !) over the years on how to request getting (vst3) added, and I think they said something like, add a request or suggestion in Center code. did that too.
so, I was also shocked there was no VST 3 in Live 10.

until tonight, folks, I just ran Auto-Tune 8.1 (vst3) in Ableton Live 9.7.5. no joke. I don't know all the technical details yet, but someone has made a wrapper for vst3 you can call from a VST 2.x host such as Ableton. and - it works! I have only done a super basic test so far, but you guys who are after vst3 in Ableton like I was, check it out here, it's called DDMF Metaplugin:

https://ddmf.eu/metaplugin-chainer-vst- ... x-wrapper/

here's an example howto:
https://youtu.be/ytxjRIuffyg


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 Post subject: Re: Vst 3 support in Live. When?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 6:18 am 

Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2010 6:01 am
Posts: 168
You can also load VST3 using Plogue Bidule (which has better support for VST3 and is far less buggy than Metaplugin)


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 Post subject: Re: Vst 3 support in Live. When?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 11:32 am 

Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2018 11:29 am
Posts: 1
Disappointed! Especially because the manual leads you down the garden path with instructions on how to do plugins and VST. "Hmmm.. Why isn't this working. NO VST3!" Unbelievable... Just hosed hours installing my Steinberg instruments....


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 Post subject: Re: Vst 3 support in Live. When?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 12:45 pm 

Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:34 am
Posts: 7055
kokokenada wrote:
Disappointed! Especially because the manual leads you down the garden path with instructions on how to do plugins and VST. "Hmmm.. Why isn't this working. NO VST3!" Unbelievable... Just hosed hours installing my Steinberg instruments....


Did you even read the post before yours?

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 Post subject: Re: Vst 3 support in Live. When?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 4:58 pm 

Joined: Sat Jan 18, 2003 8:38 pm
Posts: 1565
Location: Montreal, Canada
YoYoSushi wrote:
I guess I have to keep switching between Pro Tools and Ableton for vocal mixing. :|


The latest version, Pro Tools 12, doesn't support any type of VST, let alone VST3, so not sure what the argument is here really :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Vst 3 support in Live. When?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 8:12 pm 

Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2004 9:30 pm
Posts: 11015
Location: Seattle
Da hand wrote:
YoYoSushi wrote:
I guess I have to keep switching between Pro Tools and Ableton for vocal mixing. :|


The latest version, Pro Tools 12, doesn't support any type of VST, let alone VST3, so not sure what the argument is here really :wink:

Pretty sure you're just taking the piss here, but for those that didn't get the joke, the issue with Autotune and a few other pieces of software on the OSX side is developers releasing AU, AAX and VST3 only versions of their plug ins. Obviously Pro Tools doesn't need VST3 to get plug in support from Anteras Autotune etc. what with their own AAX format.

It's a small list of developers that don't do at least an AU version, which begs the question why not just use AU? The only downside to AU is MIDI out from virtual instruments with built in sequencers, most developers haven't implemented that in AU, of DAWs or of plug ins. I can't think of a single AU/VSTi3 only plug in in OSX that has a built in sequencer or any other function that would benefit from MIDI out?


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 Post subject: Re: Vst 3 support in Live. When?
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 3:05 pm 

Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2014 9:25 pm
Posts: 3
Steinberg has announced that “VST 2 is coming to an end,” though it remains to be seen what this will mean for the wider plugin and DAW community.

A statement on the company’s website says: “Late 2013 we announced that the Software Development Kit (SDK) for VST 2 would no longer be maintained and would only be available as subset of the VST 3 SDK. Five years down the line and this transitional phase is now also coming to an end.

“From October 2018 onward we are closing down the second version of VST for good. While the VST 2 SDK has been unavailable, and so have maintenance and technical support, the subset within the VST 3 SDK will also be omitted.”

https://www.musicradar.com/news/steinberg-says-that-vst-2-is-coming-to-an-end-but-what-does-this-mean-for-your-daw-and-plugins?utm_source=Adestra&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=23039&utm_term=10807906&utm_content=396310

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