Live 10 upgrade path

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ruido_outpost
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2017 3:17 pm

Re: Live 10 upgrade path

Post by ruido_outpost » Sat Nov 25, 2017 12:10 pm

Just checked and with the discount I now have the option to upgrade to live 10 for a stunning 199 euro, usual price at 249 euro.
I also bought Ableton Live 9 suite the 29 Aug 2017 per my account details for 599 euro.

Now, I understand that a company needs to make money, surely, but honestly, that was 3 months ago, and the upgrade isn't even all that great.

Stromkraft
Posts: 7033
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:34 am

Re: Live 10 upgrade path

Post by Stromkraft » Sat Nov 25, 2017 2:06 pm

Goseba wrote:
I have two accounts, one quoted prices in GBP, the other in Euros. Since GBP is the currency where I live I converted Euros to GBP. Obviously it was wrong to do this!
What's the matter with you? You implied to having the Euro prices, and you refused to post them as well. Which would have been very useful. That's all there is to it even if you are of course not obliged to post them even if you do have them. But now you're making a friendly fuss of it.
Goseba wrote: I didn't realise Euros were the new global currency.
I'm in Sweden and I see prices in €. Go figure. At any rate, not everyone lives in the UK or even use GBP on a yearly basis. I use Euros and dollars very often and asses prices daily in those currencies.

This being said, no need to get deeper than this.
Make some music!

cskracer
Posts: 94
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2015 7:53 am
Location: Perth, Australia

Re: Live 10 upgrade path

Post by cskracer » Sun Nov 26, 2017 2:24 am

I've had a play with the beta and thought about it for a while and I'm going to wait and see how 10 evolves. As it stands I don't feel like at $335 AUD to ugprade my Suite is worth the money. Even upgrading to standard is $315AUD. I like the multi clip editing and the note sequencing on Push, but I don't need any more VST synths - I have a wavetable synth already - nor do I need any more effects. I normally hit record when noodling around anyway, so the capture functionality doesn't do anything for me.

If they'd given us PrEditor like capability in mapping 3rd party VSTs for Push it would have been an instant buy. As it is, it feels overpriced for what it is
Last edited by cskracer on Sun Nov 26, 2017 9:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

Stromkraft
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Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:34 am

Re: Live 10 upgrade path

Post by Stromkraft » Sun Nov 26, 2017 8:57 am

cskracer wrote: As it is, it feels overpriced for what it is
You'r editing the mistake of looking at features. If Ableton fix the arrangement automation — by allowing focus of more some lanes when hiding — then the new stuff in Arrangement is sufficient in itself. There's clearly better performance too. And Max For Live 8.

No-one is forced to update. That's the beauty of it. You can always pay 20% more later when there's more stuff you realize you badly want.
Make some music!

Stromkraft
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Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:34 am

Re: Live 10 upgrade path

Post by Stromkraft » Sun Nov 26, 2017 9:05 am

My path is updating Live 9 Intro to Standard. Which is 223€, which includes Live 10 at release. But I probably would miss Max For Live, so adding that is currently 119€, but I have a voucher for 50, so make that 69€. But hey, I have a relationship with Sampler which is 63€.

Add that up and that's 355€. An upgrade to Suite is 399€, 349 with the voucher. Oops.
Make some music!

cskracer
Posts: 94
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2015 7:53 am
Location: Perth, Australia

Re: Live 10 upgrade path

Post by cskracer » Sun Nov 26, 2017 9:19 am

Stromkraft wrote:
cskracer wrote: As it is, it feels overpriced for what it is
You'r editing the mistake of looking at features. If Ableton fix the arrangement automation — by allowing focus of more some lanes when hiding — then the new stuff in Arrangement is sufficient in itself. There's clearly better performance too. And Max For Live 8.

No-one is forced to update. That's the beauty of it. You can always pay 20% more later when there's more stuff you realize you badly want.
You're right in the respect that no one is forced to upgrade. I'll wait until I see worthwhile value for me. It's not there at the moment. Other's mileage may vary.

Trump2016
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Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2016 2:16 am

Re: Live 10 upgrade path

Post by Trump2016 » Mon Dec 04, 2017 8:52 am

You're right in the respect that no one is forced to upgrade. I'll wait until I see worthwhile value for me. It's not there at the moment. Other's mileage may vary.
This is true, but one would expect as someone purchasing 9 within the last year, that the bugs would be fixed in 9, and not held over the head as an upgrade. They should be including some of the navigation and shortcuts in 9 in the last version imo.

marcolemes
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Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2011 6:11 am

Re: Live 10 upgrade path

Post by marcolemes » Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:38 pm

Agree. Seems like Version 10 bring some enhancements, but not sure if that’s worth $240 for a Suite upgrade. We, Suite license owners, have already purchased the top-of-the-line version of Live. Ableton should offer that at half that price at least. No rush to upgrade. Does Ableton have sales once in a while, at discount better than their current 20% off? Or I could just upgrade to the Standard version. I don’t use much of the extras in the Suite anyway. Prefer plugins.

Cheers.

Stromkraft
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Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:34 am

Re: Live 10 upgrade path

Post by Stromkraft » Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:04 pm

marcolemes wrote:We, Suite license owners, have already purchased the top-of-the-line version of Live. Ableton should offer that at half that price at least.
We, producers with a Suite license, have already purchased the previous top-of-the-line version of Live. Spread over almost 5 years, that's $120 per year or so. I got it on 20% discount, so less than $100 per year for me. Given the excellent support I think Ableton have, that's not much. Some got on later, but this is not a sub.

$240 for say the coming 3 years, is $80 a year. What's that? That's not expensive. The alternative risk is that we will arrive at subscriptions instead, if people don't like to pay reasonable upgrade prices.
marcolemes wrote: Or I could just upgrade to the Standard version. I don’t use much of the extras in the Suite anyway. Prefer plugins. .
AFAIK, that crossgrade isn't discounted. At least not now. So you save $30-40 maybe.
Make some music!

kitekrazy
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Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2010 7:16 pm

Re: Live 10 upgrade path

Post by kitekrazy » Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:32 pm

Stromkraft wrote:
marcolemes wrote:We, Suite license owners, have already purchased the top-of-the-line version of Live. Ableton should offer that at half that price at least.
We, producers with a Suite license, have already purchased the previous top-of-the-line version of Live. Spread over almost 5 years, that's $120 per year or so. I got it on 20% discount, so less than $100 per year for me. Given the excellent support I think Ableton have, that's not much. Some got on later, but this is not a sub.

$240 for say the coming 3 years, is $80 a year. What's that? That's not expensive. The alternative risk is that we will arrive at subscriptions instead, if people don't like to pay reasonable upgrade prices.
marcolemes wrote: Or I could just upgrade to the Standard version. I don’t use much of the extras in the Suite anyway. Prefer plugins. .
AFAIK, that crossgrade isn't discounted. At least not now. So you save $30-40 maybe.
Not very persuasive at all for a suite user. What exactly would they upgrade for Suite? The orchestra library is old, any improvements in Sampler? Operator? If there are no improvements in the Suite you are paying extra costs just to use those over again. Kinda like a subscription. So for having Suite since 8, it's overpriced and will have to wait for a reasonable discount. Right now a Cubase crossgrade costs less than this.

Stromkraft
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Re: Live 10 upgrade path

Post by Stromkraft » Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:57 pm

kitekrazy wrote:
Not very persuasive at all for a suite user. What exactly would they upgrade for Suite? The orchestra library is old, any improvements in Sampler? Operator? If there are no improvements in the Suite you are paying extra costs just to use those over again. Kinda like a subscription. So for having Suite since 8, it's overpriced and will have to wait for a reasonable discount. Right now a Cubase crossgrade costs less than this.
The new stuff in 10 is well known so no need for me to reiterate those points here. Either one wants the new "small" features, like the editor features, that I really believe adds up, or one don't.

From my view, I'd rather Ableton had announced a new Sampler with improved wavetable supporting functions — strictly speaking wavetables are already possible in Sampler —  than the new Wavetable synth, but seriously if one appreciates Operator et al as they are now, probably you will grow to like this new synth as well. All the Live synths are for getting something usable quickly in a sketchbook manner using a little less resources than more "deep" Instruments.

If one loves one of these instruments and like Max For Live, then that's all you need to be at parity pricewise with the price of Suite, especially if you upgrade the price difference is like taking a couple of friends to the movies. Not everyone can appreciate the extra content in Suite, including the new unique packs for Live 10, but many people will find a few and that is in many cases sufficient as a motivator.

I betting on that Sampler — that I love in many ways — will not gain support for respecting loop points saved in library samples (not as Sampler presets), so I'm dropping it, mainly for that reason.

For various reasons I'll be ending up with Standard with Max For Live — too many great MIDI tools and audio effects — instead, but it's probably a good idea to really look over what you use if you are contemplating crossgrading down to Standard. If a person really aren't using anything unique to Suite, then why didn't this person already crossgrade down to Standard?

At least Suite users get 20% off at this time. I'm not sure what upgrade offers Standard users get?
Last edited by Stromkraft on Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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sowhoso
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Re: Live 10 upgrade path

Post by sowhoso » Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:00 am

my account shows that I own Live 9 standard. however, the price I see for Live 10 standard is $229 USD as an upgrade

what is the real price for Live 10 standard considering i own Live 9 standard?

Sional
Posts: 156
Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2011 5:36 pm

Re: Live 10 upgrade path

Post by Sional » Fri Dec 08, 2017 11:51 am

I do find it strange that some people defend Ableton's upgrade pricing for existing Suite owners.

The fact remains that the person who will have paid the least amount of money for Live 10 Suite is the person who has never owned Live before.

Suite 10 can be purchased for £415 (buy Suite 9 now and get the free upgrade to 10).

I paid £124 to upgrade from Suite 8 to 9 and am being asked to pay £183 if I want to upgrade to Suite 10.
So Ableton values my Suite 8 licence at £108!

Stromkraft
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Re: Live 10 upgrade path

Post by Stromkraft » Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:19 pm

Sional wrote:I do find it strange that some people defend Ableton's upgrade pricing for existing Suite owners.
Well, as far as I am concerned I'm being realistic. I'd rather pay $500 for the update and get a great DAW than pay as little as bleedin' possible and see Ableton pack it at some point. Look at what happened to Cakewalk (Bought and terminated).

I view Live as a pro application and what I fear is that they will cater only to non-Pros and price accordingly gravitating towards zero.

Anyone can make a decision for themselves with these things. It's not as if we can't keep making great music with Live 9. Personally I'm going to 10.

The way I see it what you are willing to pay for your tools also reflect how you value what you produce with these tools.

Most important
I certainly think that Ableton could address a number of things to make their products more attractive. That is so much more important than the price and I even have less money (at the moment anyway) than most and I still feel like that. Ableton shouldn't compete on price, but on offering one of the best DAWs on the planet.
Make some music!

Angstrom
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Re: Live 10 upgrade path

Post by Angstrom » Fri Dec 08, 2017 8:12 pm

it's not absolutely great pricing but its not the worst either.

I mean - what's Bitwig's yearly fee to keep up with support and point versions? It's something like €159 every year!
On the flipside we have the Fruity model, which is (pardon me) bananas value, and I have no idea how they keep going with giving away full updates.

Value is measured against usage though.
I've got Studio One Pro3 which I upgraded for about £120 which I use about twice a month for arranging those hard to arrange tracks that Ableton can't reach.
I've got Live 9/10 which will cost me £180 which I use every day for pretty much everything.
Which of these is more valuable. Cost/time in use. Use your own formula.

Editors Verdict
Buy it, don't buy it, whatever.
The bony hand of death beckons each of us, and as the reaper sends you into the infinite void he may just comment: "Oh, I see you saved yourself £180, nice, nice. Well, that will come in handy, eh?"

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