Live 10 upgrade path

Discussion of anything not related to audio or music production
ruido_outpost
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2017 3:17 pm

Re: Live 10 upgrade path

Post by ruido_outpost » Fri Nov 03, 2017 10:42 am

I bought Suite about two months ago and my upgrade is priced at 199 euro. That is, at the moment, 231.862 Us Dollar, or 1,948.11 Swedish.

So, to recap, I literally spent nearly 6k swedish on a software that now releases an upgrade for another 2k Swedish based on personalized pricing, and the update pretty much contains the shit that I've wanted since version 5 when I had my old license before I sold it.

Or, you know, I could buy Studio One v3 (full version) for 344 euro, or 3 356,49 Swedish, and get all the features that I've been waiting for since like freaking forever (and tons and TONS more), and slave Live 9 to that instead.
Yeah, no upgrade for me. 3 new devices (big whoop), and some minor workflow enhancements that should be there from the start, like, you know, mouse-wheel zoom.

Nope.

Oh hey, can you convert a track to mono yet?
No?
Ah, ok..

(This is not mono-conversion, this is a workaround for something that should be there from the start: https://www.ableton.com/answers/is-ther ... ck-in-live)

scheffkoch
Posts: 491
Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2015 12:37 pm

Re: Live 10 upgrade path

Post by scheffkoch » Fri Nov 03, 2017 11:45 am

...what was the reason you bought live in the first place?...the "problems" you describe were already there when you bought it so why didn't you buy studio one when it's "all you've been waiting for"?...
macbook pro late 2016, osx 10.13.6, rme multiface via sonnet thunderbolt expresscard adapter + thunderbolt to usb-c adapter, ableton live 10.0.1, push 2, komplete 9, maschine 2.7.6, touchable

ark
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Re: Live 10 upgrade path

Post by ark » Fri Nov 03, 2017 4:57 pm

Tarekith wrote:The price is good until Live 10 comes out. There is no release date yet, it will be released when it's deemed ready and stable after the public beta.
Also, at least in the USA, if you order the upgrade now, they don't charge your credit card until it's actually available.

G-force
Posts: 77
Joined: Fri May 01, 2009 4:59 am

Re: Live 10 upgrade path

Post by G-force » Fri Nov 03, 2017 7:33 pm

So what would be the upgrade price AFTER Live 10 is relessed? ( from 9 Suite to 20 Suite) do you suppose? Would I be saving that much by pre-ordering?

ark
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Re: Live 10 upgrade path

Post by ark » Fri Nov 03, 2017 8:14 pm

G-force wrote:So what would be the upgrade price AFTER Live 10 is relessed? ( from 9 Suite to 20 Suite) do you suppose? Would I be saving that much by pre-ordering?
I believe you save 20% of the upgrade price.

I have Live 9 Suite and was quoted $239 to upgrade to 10 Suite. That quote included the number $299, crossed out. 80% of $299 is $239.20, which is rounded to $239.

jujuman65
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2017 9:18 pm

Re: Live 10 upgrade path

Post by jujuman65 » Fri Nov 03, 2017 9:42 pm

I have an upgraded live 9 Suite license which I paid £279 for when I got my Push 2 came with live intro
I also have a live 9 intro license

Ableton want to charge £183.00 to upgrade my suite license to live 10 so total = £462

OR £367 to go from 9 intro to Suite 10. i.e £95 less in total

So I figure they think (A) we're all so excited that we'll just pay up without thinking
OR (B) we're all just a bunch of mugs/fools

I've asked for an explanation for this discrepancy...how can existing customers be so undervalued?
I also want a fairer solution.

I think: (A) its a good upgrade but not that exciting
AND (B) I'm not a fool

stringtapper
Posts: 6271
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 6:21 pm

Re: Live 10 upgrade path

Post by stringtapper » Fri Nov 03, 2017 10:07 pm

jujuman65 wrote:I have an upgraded live 9 Suite license which I paid £279 for when I got my Push 2 came with live intro
I also have a live 9 intro license

Ableton want to charge £183.00 to upgrade my suite license to live 10 so total = £462

OR £367 to go from 9 intro to Suite 10. i.e £95 less in total

So I figure they think (A) we're all so excited that we'll just pay up without thinking
OR (B) we're all just a bunch of mugs/fools

I've asked for an explanation for this discrepancy...how can existing customers be so undervalued?
I also want a fairer solution.

I think: (A) its a good upgrade but not that exciting
AND (B) I'm not a fool
There's no discrepancy. You're simply conflating two different transactions and treating them as if they're somehow one transaction. They aren't.
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jujuman65
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2017 9:18 pm

Re: Live 10 upgrade path

Post by jujuman65 » Fri Nov 03, 2017 11:22 pm

stringtapper wrote:
jujuman65 wrote:I have an upgraded live 9 Suite license which I paid £279 for when I got my Push 2 came with live intro
I also have a live 9 intro license

Ableton want to charge £183.00 to upgrade my suite license to live 10 so total = £462

OR £367 to go from 9 intro to Suite 10. i.e £95 less in total

So I figure they think (A) we're all so excited that we'll just pay up without thinking
OR (B) we're all just a bunch of mugs/fools

I've asked for an explanation for this discrepancy...how can existing customers be so undervalued?
I also want a fairer solution.

I think: (A) its a good upgrade but not that exciting
AND (B) I'm not a fool
There's no discrepancy. You're simply conflating two different transactions and treating them as if they're somehow one transaction. They aren't.

I'm detecting a somewhat patronizing tone in your response. Hopefully I am wrong on that?

To clarify.....the starting point was/is Live 9 intro.The middle ground is Live 9 Suite. The end point is Live 10 Suite

As an existing customer I may complete a two stage two payment upgrade for a total outlay of £462
A more recent customer however,may make a two stage single payment upgrade for just £367

So my reward for being a loyal Ableton customer for longer is to follow the same upgrade path at a higher overall cost.

The discrepancy (i.e. "unacceptable difference or inconsistency") is....£95

I am not against paying for an upgrade, but do not wish to subsidize Ableton's new customer incentives.

mortalengines
Posts: 31
Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2005 8:43 pm
Location: Portland, OR

Re: Live 10 upgrade path

Post by mortalengines » Fri Nov 03, 2017 11:27 pm

Oh good! I'm not the only guy who thinks the upgrade path for Suite owners is complete bullshit. I'm a Mac owner. Weird issues notwithstanding in regards to Core Midi, Logic (only 200 bucks) is suddenly looking good. I'll probably upgrade to 10 at some point but, I'm in no hurry. Is it me, or does it seem like existing Suite owners get to subsidize the new competitive price for 10 Suite?

stringtapper
Posts: 6271
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 6:21 pm

Re: Live 10 upgrade path

Post by stringtapper » Fri Nov 03, 2017 11:43 pm

jujuman65 wrote:I'm detecting a somewhat patronizing tone in your response. Hopefully I am wrong on that?
Just following your lead, friend.

jujuman65 wrote:To clarify.....the starting point was/is Live 9 intro.The middle ground is Live 9 Suite. The end point is Live 10 Suite

As an existing customer I may complete a two stage two payment upgrade for a total outlay of £462
A more recent customer however,may make a two stage single payment upgrade for just £367

So my reward for being a loyal Ableton customer for longer is to follow the same upgrade path at a higher overall cost.

The discrepancy (i.e. "unacceptable difference or inconsistency") is....£95

I am not against paying for an upgrade, but do not wish to subsidize Ableton's new customer incentives.
Look, this is the same kind of logic-bending that comes up any time there's a new release announced.

Someone bought some such upgrade or complete version at such-and-such a time and now they feel they're owed something special because of the exact chain of events that led them to where they are now in the upgrade path. "Customer loyalty" you're calling it.

But the customer loyalty is already right there in the form of (1) the existence of an upgrade price that's lower than the full price and (2) the limited-time 20% discount applied to the upgrade price for pre-orders.

Do you really expect Ableton to go through every conceivable path a person could have taken to get to Live 10, mapping it out like Doc Brown's time-paradox web in Back to the Future II ? Really?

So essentially you're looking at the deal that someone else is getting now and wishing it was you. Or, maybe you're even looking back at your past self (to keep with the time travel motif) and realizing what a great deal you got with your upgrade from Live 9 Intro to Live 9 Suite and thinking, "Damn, I wish that was happening now instead of then. Where's my DeLorean???"
Last edited by stringtapper on Fri Nov 03, 2017 11:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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stringtapper
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Re: Live 10 upgrade path

Post by stringtapper » Fri Nov 03, 2017 11:51 pm

mortalengines wrote:Weird issues notwithstanding in regards to Core Midi
Like what?

mortalengines wrote:Logic (only 200 bucks) is suddenly looking good.
It doesn't just look good, it is good. Best value music software on the market. Of course someone will bring up the price of a Mac as the "true" price for Logic.
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mortalengines
Posts: 31
Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2005 8:43 pm
Location: Portland, OR

Re: Live 10 upgrade path

Post by mortalengines » Sat Nov 04, 2017 12:02 am

stringtapper wrote:
mortalengines wrote:Weird issues notwithstanding in regards to Core Midi
Like what?

mortalengines wrote:Logic (only 200 bucks) is suddenly looking good.
It doesn't just look good, it is good. Best value music software on the market. Of course someone will bring up the price of a Mac as the "true" price for Logic.
I have only heard about Logic not liking certain things like 3rd party sequencers...I like all the M4L midi modulated stuff. I am sure Logic has a fine alternative, though. The only thing that has kept me from going in that direction is the hassle of learning the ins and outs of another DAW. I generally don't mind the price of a Mac. There is always a certain consistency there with the hardware and software...things generally either work well with a Mac, or they don't. There is a whole lot of "maybe" in the PC laptop world.

jujuman65
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2017 9:18 pm

Re: Live 10 upgrade path

Post by jujuman65 » Sat Nov 04, 2017 1:22 am

stringtapper wrote:
jujuman65 wrote:I'm detecting a somewhat patronizing tone in your response. Hopefully I am wrong on that?
Just following your lead, friend.

jujuman65 wrote:To clarify.....the starting point was/is Live 9 intro.The middle ground is Live 9 Suite. The end point is Live 10 Suite

As an existing customer I may complete a two stage two payment upgrade for a total outlay of £462
A more recent customer however,may make a two stage single payment upgrade for just £367

So my reward for being a loyal Ableton customer for longer is to follow the same upgrade path at a higher overall cost.

The discrepancy (i.e. "unacceptable difference or inconsistency") is....£95

I am not against paying for an upgrade, but do not wish to subsidize Ableton's new customer incentives.
Look, this is the same kind of logic-bending that comes up any time there's a new release announced.

Someone bought some such upgrade or complete version at such-and-such a time and now they feel they're owed something special because of the exact chain of events that led them to where they are now in the upgrade path. "Customer loyalty" you're calling it.

But the customer loyalty is already right there in the form of (1) the existence of an upgrade price that's lower than the full price and (2) the limited-time 20% discount applied to the upgrade price for pre-orders.

Do you really expect Ableton to go through every conceivable path a person could have taken to get to Live 10, mapping it out like Doc Brown's time-paradox web in Back to the Future II ? Really?

So essentially you're looking at the deal that someone else is getting now and wishing it was you. Or, maybe you're even looking back at your past self (to keep with the time travel motif) and realizing what a great deal you got with your upgrade from Live 9 Intro to Live 9 Suite and thinking, "Damn, I wish that was happening now instead of then. Where's my DeLorean???"

Erm....

The following is lifted from Ableton’s own Knowledebase

“Upgrade pricing for existing Live users
Existing owners of Live are automatically eligible for discounted upgrade pricing.

Our shop calculates your personal upgrade options based on the Live license registered in your account.

You just need to login to your Ableton.com account and then visit our webshop to see the available upgrade offers.

Keep in mind that the webshop will only display the available upgrades for your current license. For example, a Live Lite license can only be upgraded to Standard or Suite, so there would be no upgrade to Intro displayed.”

The key phrase here is
“Our shop calculates your personal upgrade options based on the Live license registered in your account.”

That’s where I got my upgrade prices from .
My account ,with upgrade options calculated personally ,for me ,by Ableton.
No logic bending.
No time machine.
Their wording. Not mine.
Just two different prices ,offered to the same customer via different upgrade paths.....by Ableton themselves.
With a discrepancy between the cost made clearly visible by...Ableton ,themselves.
No need to look at every conceivable path ....just those already offered to me personally ...by Ableton themselves.

I can’t ignore the discrepancy that Ableton revealed to me in their upgrade pricing.
I want a solution that meets the level of expectation they created and,yes,ideally a better deal. I feel my customer loyalty warrants that.

But hey, if you or anybody else are content to pay the upgrade price you received on your accounts, then go ahead, enjoy you new features and be happy.

Trump2016
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2016 2:16 am

Re: Live 10 upgrade path

Post by Trump2016 » Sat Nov 04, 2017 1:30 am

Showing $239 for upgrade as a Suite 9 owner. I bought summer of last year, and if I waited until now I'd get 10 free. It's a bit greedy for an update that definitely doesn't qualify as a major version. It's a nice upgrade, but most of the changes are just features 9 should have had, but didn't because it was rushed.

I wouldn't pay more than $49 for an upgrade. I can make do with having inferior keyboard controls. I respect that developers need to get paid for their work, but come on, these are mostly bug fixes, not new features. I also don't want to risk breaking support for Push 1, which has the majority of scripts written for it. When you rush product cycles, you piss off developers. It's best to make things rock solid first. Live 9 still isn't stable enough.

Finally, a lot of creative work is moving to iPad. Beatmaker 3 is $20 on sale. It's going to be near Live after a year of development for 90% of functions. I suggest if Ableton wants $239 for an "upgrade" that they invest some time in porting to iPad. I'm happy to contribute to a project I support, but I'm a capitalist, and this is not competitive pricing.

G-force
Posts: 77
Joined: Fri May 01, 2009 4:59 am

Re: Live 10 upgrade path

Post by G-force » Sat Nov 04, 2017 1:37 am

ark wrote:
G-force wrote:So what would be the upgrade price AFTER Live 10 is relessed? ( from 9 Suite to 20 Suite) do you suppose? Would I be saving that much by pre-ordering?
I believe you save 20% of the upgrade price.

I have Live 9 Suite and was quoted $239 to upgrade to 10 Suite. That quote included the number $299, crossed out. 80% of $299 is $239.20, which is rounded to $239.
Ok, Thanks, Ark!

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