Re: Live 10 upgrade path
Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 3:59 pm
This.zeropoint wrote:
I consider my upgrade pricing a big FU from Ableton so I will be returning the complement.....
This.zeropoint wrote:
I consider my upgrade pricing a big FU from Ableton so I will be returning the complement.....
Because I can produce with live 100% faster than I can with Studio One, but as soon as you get into the nitty gritty of things such as micro-editing, working with lots and lots of tracks (200+), video and stuff like that that other DAWs can handle just perfectly fine, Live is a piece of shit. but the way it is built around you owning the signal-chain is what keeps me working with it; no other DAW can do the stuff live can, really, but it should decide whether it should be a DAW or a sounddesign-tool.scheffkoch wrote:...what was the reason you bought live in the first place?...the "problems" you describe were already there when you bought it so why didn't you buy studio one when it's "all you've been waiting for"?...
Which makes it strange that Ableton added those few additions to Arrangment in L10, like the (not very elegant) slip editing, or the stretch in place, or the automation view.Machinesworking wrote: It's probably why Ableton have been more focused on the composing side in upgrades lately than performance. Which I agree with you is an at some point losing battle in terms of the final parts of production, since Cubase, Reaper, Logic etc. are already far beyond where Live can get to in terms of final production features like comping, VCA faders etc.
I've been messing around with Reaper, funny, I got Logic Pro X as a replacement for DP because MOTU for some reason still don't have any choices for rendering beyond typical stereo and surround. You can of course buss to tracks and freeze all your tracks, but stems involves bussing everything to tracks, then recording in real time etc. I end up talking to some Windows using musician friends and/or poor friends and we're going with Reaper as a way of collaborating. It's the Anti-Live, it took me a day or so to set up some basic functions I wanted out of a linear DAW etc. but it's insanely powerful. A feature Live and every other DAW should have is it's rendering features. You can render to stems it takes no time to insert tracks into folders, which busses the tracks to that folder, name and select the folders then toss in some render options, name, project and bpm in my case, then faster than real time you have bass, melody, drum etc. stems. The fact it lets you rename the stems with your own choices VS Abletons way says it all.Angstrom wrote:Which makes it strange that Ableton added those few additions to Arrangment in L10, like the (not very elegant) slip editing, or the stretch in place, or the automation view.Machinesworking wrote: It's probably why Ableton have been more focused on the composing side in upgrades lately than performance. Which I agree with you is an at some point losing battle in terms of the final parts of production, since Cubase, Reaper, Logic etc. are already far beyond where Live can get to in terms of final production features like comping, VCA faders etc.
So there was some focus on arranging but I'm not sure what elevated those features as the ones to deliver. I can't say that arranging is any easier in L10 than it was in L9. Perhaps it's even slightly more difficult.
I "slip edit" all the time and the implementation of this in Live 10 is not helpful as we can't see the out of bounds wave so it's just guesswork re placement of the bounds - and consequently still better to do it in clip view where the full wave and the braces are all visible.
So, they spent time adding stuff to arrangment but the things they added were very weird and I can only assume they benefit Push users, or people sampling MadBeatz, etc.
This was an excellent post. Even though I have the Suite I just find 3rd party apps are much better and easily replace what is in the Suite. I doubt I would ever get around to learning Max for Live. I will stick with 9. I still have so much to explore in it.Stromkraft wrote:I already have plug-in instruments, specifically the free TyrellN6. Madrona Labs Aalto, Cakewalk Z3TA+ 2, Waves Element, Massive, FM8 and Reaktor that I feel are superior to what comes with Suite and I stopped using anything but Simpler/Sampler and Electric years ago.regalpierot wrote:@Stromkraft : I might be missing something but it sounds like you went through all that selling\rebuying nonsense to ultimately go from Live 9 Suite to Live 10 Standard, thereby losing access to a bunch of Instruments and Effects including the new ones in 10. I may be missing something there but 9 Suite beats 10 Standard IMHO.
So there was nothing or very little in Suite I felt I couldn't give up, except for Max For Live which is why I bought that.
The final nail in the coffin was that I decided Ableton wasn't likely to update Sampler any time soon with reading loop points — meaning it throws away years of work put inbto sample libraries at import — so I gave up. I'm looking to use either Kontakt 5 or Reaktor samplers as alternatives and I'm looking at the TAL-Sampler as well. I guess this means Ableton will update Sampler very soon, so if anyone wants to sell their separate Sampler license at a bargain price PM me. Could be good to have around anyway.
I'll keep using Simpler for drums, but I use mainly synthetic drums for my stuff.
My main advantage with stepping to Standard was to clear my mind space of the Suite synths, so I don't have to feel irritated they're just there or use them and feel they let me down. I saved a few €s as well, but that was not the main objective.
I've heard the excuse for Live's pricing that they have 5 major updates. That doesn't even hold a candle to Reaper. It's a very deep DAW. Live and Reaper are so different.Machinesworking wrote:I've been messing around with Reaper, funny, I got Logic Pro X as a replacement for DP because MOTU for some reason still don't have any choices for rendering beyond typical stereo and surround. You can of course buss to tracks and freeze all your tracks, but stems involves bussing everything to tracks, then recording in real time etc. I end up talking to some Windows using musician friends and/or poor friends and we're going with Reaper as a way of collaborating. It's the Anti-Live, it took me a day or so to set up some basic functions I wanted out of a linear DAW etc. but it's insanely powerful. A feature Live and every other DAW should have is it's rendering features. You can render to stems it takes no time to insert tracks into folders, which busses the tracks to that folder, name and select the folders then toss in some render options, name, project and bpm in my case, then faster than real time you have bass, melody, drum etc. stems. The fact it lets you rename the stems with your own choices VS Abletons way says it all.Angstrom wrote:Which makes it strange that Ableton added those few additions to Arrangment in L10, like the (not very elegant) slip editing, or the stretch in place, or the automation view.Machinesworking wrote: It's probably why Ableton have been more focused on the composing side in upgrades lately than performance. Which I agree with you is an at some point losing battle in terms of the final parts of production, since Cubase, Reaper, Logic etc. are already far beyond where Live can get to in terms of final production features like comping, VCA faders etc.
So there was some focus on arranging but I'm not sure what elevated those features as the ones to deliver. I can't say that arranging is any easier in L10 than it was in L9. Perhaps it's even slightly more difficult.
I "slip edit" all the time and the implementation of this in Live 10 is not helpful as we can't see the out of bounds wave so it's just guesswork re placement of the bounds - and consequently still better to do it in clip view where the full wave and the braces are all visible.
So, they spent time adding stuff to arrangment but the things they added were very weird and I can only assume they benefit Push users, or people sampling MadBeatz, etc.
I'll probably always use Live for live performance, Reaper is extensible, and if Max patches seem scary to you, then scripts written in java by end users would be murder. Even with that, for more linear songwriting, after the initial mind raping learning Reaper puts you through, once you have it set up the way you like to work, it's just better. Live is great for live performance, and they have a fairly intuitive way they would like you to work, but in terms of the UI you're done. They thought it out and you're along for the ride.
Funniest part is Logic is amazing, and at this point in many ways the halfway point between Live and Reaper, but I'm dead set on getting to know Reaper well because of the easy collaboration part, convincing someone to spend $60 VS $450 for Live, or even Logic's $199, straight away is a winner.
The real excuse is this, they have many mouths to feed. AAS, and sample libraries that are licensed to them from other companies in Suite. They purchased Cycling 74, that couldn't have been cheap.kitekrazy wrote: I've heard the excuse for Live's pricing that they have 5 major updates. That doesn't even hold a candle to Reaper. It's a very deep DAW. Live and Reaper are so different.
what script is that? thx!Machinesworking wrote: they're writing whole new things like controller scripts (I have one for Push 2 that's pretty dammed good!)
Here's the video on it.sowhoso wrote:what script is that? thx!Machinesworking wrote: they're writing whole new things like controller scripts (I have one for Push 2 that's pretty dammed good!)
Completely agree.empirix wrote:the upgrade price is a joke, no way is it worthbthst
pure greed. ill stick with suite 9.
That's ridiculous. It wasn't Sowhoso who was being rude - s/he was responding in kind to someone who was rude first. Tell them off instead.[jur] wrote:Please, don't be rude.sowhoso wrote:go make some music
thx
Trump2016 wrote:it's bordering on unethical in my opinion.