Will Wavetable come with Live Standard, or only with Suite?

[djsinistral]

Can't find any info on whether the new Wavetable synth will be included in Live 10 Standard?... Or only Suite?

Ableton staff.... help?

[chrk]

Can't find any info on...

Yes, you can.

[Frawnz]

Suite only.

https://www.ableton.com/en/live/compare-editions/

One way to look at it, the price difference between Standard and Suite is more or less in the price ballpark of Serum. List for Serum is S189, during the 20% sale the difference between Standard and Suite is $216. Wavetable looks much better integrated into Live than Serum, so maybe worth the extra $. Is it as good, dunno.

[Stromkraft]

...and that's just the tip of the iceberg of what you get: MaxForLive, Analog, Collision, Drum Synths, Electric, Operator, Sampler and Tenosion - all great instruments. Not to mention the sound packs, effects, etc.

Really, there's no need in owning less than Suite, unless you really have basic needs.

The bolded ones and potentially the Wavetable Synth (it's so darn simple) are sufficient reason for Suite IMHO. But if you, say, already have a sampler and already got a nice electric piano or no need for one, then Standard is a great and cost-effective option.

The Ableton synths are nothing, nor is the core library coming with them. If you're a complete newbie these might be nice for learning, but if you know of real instruments and other software instruments then there's no way you'd prefer these. Without such preferences, dive right in.

Of course many great packs need Sampler so if you plan to get some specific ones that is one more for Suite, but your current sampler may have a better library anyway so.

Max For Live is not for everyone, but I really love the all the MIDI tools at disposal. And Convolution Reverb and Dub Machines…

[Stromkraft]

One way to look at it, the price difference between Standard and Suite is more or less in the price ballpark of Serum. List for Serum is S189, during the 20% sale the difference between Standard and Suite is $216. Wavetable looks much better integrated into Live than Serum, so maybe worth the extra $. Is it as good, dunno.

I haven't really tried it yet, but I can say no, it isn't. It's too simple. Better to view it as a nice plus. You can already put wavetables (any) both into Simpler and Sampler and make real-time adjustments. Especially in Sampler.

Likely Wavetable is better at this, but it's a small step beyond this and a looooong way from Wavetable synths like Serum, Massive and Z3TA+ 2 for example (I own the last two). That's not to say Ableton's new instrument cannot become something great given some time. If Sampler isn't evolved because of this that will make me angry though.

[Stromkraft]

The Ableton synths are nothing, nor is the core library coming with them. If you're a complete newbie these might be nice for learning, but if you know of real instruments and other software instruments then there's no way you'd prefer these. Without such preferences, dive right in.

You're dead wrong about this. I'm not saying that Serum or Sylent1 etc. are inferior because obviously they're not, but to say that Ableton's synths "are nothing" is ridiculous! .

No, it's not. It's reality. Put Tension, Collision, Analog, the drum synths and Operator up against a similar patch in a high quality third party synth in oversampled mode if available — hand made patches preferably — in the same song without any effects and compare for the same parts.

One can only cry for the Ableton synths as they indeed have nothing on most instruments in competition, in which I include free synths!

These native synths are thin and weak in honest and direct comparison. The only plus side is they tend to use less CPU, which can be important.

That said, if one already owns Suite, as I do, one can make use of Instrument racks and layer native instruments. While layering won't change the basic sound palette available, it will at least beef up the sound a bit. Some saturation on that will take you a little further and will probably be great fun! At least until you figure out what takes hours to build with the native synths into satisfaction takes 10 minutes in many others. I have my favs, but the point is there are many that can compete.

The software synths I use stand up to genuine hardware, old and new. The native Ableton synths are nice for "charcoal" sketching, writing parts and playing around with, but they're not the oil painting of instruments.

I have no expectations on the new Wavetable synth, planning a session soon. I'll experience it with an open mind.

I'm always convinced talent means one can make great music with anything, so I don't mean you cannot make great music with the native synths. I simply choose not to. Life's too short.

[doghouse]

One can only cry for the Ableton synths as they indeed have nothing on most instruments in competition, in which I include free synths!

My real complaint is the low quality and quantity of presets. I got spoiled using Yamaha workstations with high quality "radio ready" sounds for years. The factory presets for Live (including those for Sampler) are pathetic in comparison. There isn't even a good grand piano! I think the instruments themselves sound OK (yes, Analog does pale next to the best VAs out there like Monark or Diva) but I literally do not have the time or skill to program all the sounds I need from scratch. I want great presets that I can modify to my requirements.

If only the Live instruments were as well served by the third party patch developers who crank out high quality libraries for Kontakt, Massive, etc. then people might use them more.

I pretty much agree with the earlier post that M4L, Electric and Sampler are the real reasons to pay extra for Suite, although I think Operator makes the list as well.

[Quez]

One can only cry for the Ableton synths as they indeed have nothing on most instruments in competition, in which I include free synths!

My real complaint is the low quality and quantity of presets. I got spoiled using Yamaha workstations with high quality "radio ready" sounds for years. The factory presets for Live (including those for Sampler) are pathetic in comparison. There isn't even a good grand piano! I think the instruments themselves sound OK (yes, Analog does pale next to the best VAs out there like Monark or Diva) but I literally do not have the time or skill to program all the sounds I need from scratch. I want great presets that I can modify to my requirements.

If only the Live instruments were as well served by the third party patch developers who crank out high quality libraries for Kontakt, Massive, etc. then people might use them more.

I agree. The presets are too few and not great. Even if I like to program sounds, more presets would be helpful. I was surprised going from Live 8 to Live 9 that a lot of previous presets were gone. Why not just keep them while adding new ones ?

[Tarekith]

You can still download the Live 8 library if you need those presets.

[kraymon]

Whats a little annoying about this is that I have Standard but it was upgraded with a lot of the Suite instruments a while back (when you could buy them separately). So technically I pretty much have Suite 9 (apart from Max, which I'm ok with) but now I have to pay a lot to get Wavetable, which I would like.

It would be cool to be able to buy the plugins separately.

[Nokatus]

You can buy Wavetable separately. And when you do that, it's basically like buying any separate synth in that manner (although it only works in Live, of course). The added benefit being, it's available to you in all the subsequent versions using this separate license even if you decide to go with Standard ...

I agree, though: it would be very nice if EVERY possible Suite plugin (also effects) could be bought separately if needed. The whole "you can kinda buy stuff separately, but there's a few very usable ones you can't" is something I don't fancy.

[Stromkraft]

You can buy Wavetable separately.

Currently at 129€ including VAT.

During the beta I made a track with this fine Ableton flagship of a synth. I like it a lot, but I see few reasons getting it, even if it is the best synth Ableton have made IMO. And yes, I've abandoned Suite now for myself, even though we use 9 Suite in the studio.

Massive at 149€ is closer to my heart and while it's really old it sounds superb. At least when I do my sounds.

My other fav Z3TA+ 2 is not an alternative for anyone else as Gibson put Cakewalk out of commission.

Serum at $189 (same in Euros?)is what people keeps mentioning in connection with wavetable synths. It haven't made me want to buy it but I realize it's a great synth.

[kitekrazy]

The Ableton synths are nothing, nor is the core library coming with them. If you're a complete newbie these might be nice for learning, but if you know of real instruments and other software instruments then there's no way you'd prefer these. Without such preferences, dive right in.

You're dead wrong about this. I'm not saying that Serum or Sylent1 etc. are inferior because obviously they're not, but to say that Ableton's synths "are nothing" is ridiculous! .

No, it's not. It's reality. Put Tension, Collision, Analog, the drum synths and Operator up against a similar patch in a high quality third party synth in oversampled mode if available — hand made patches preferably — in the same song without any effects and compare for the same parts.

One can only cry for the Ableton synths as they indeed have nothing on most instruments in competition, in which I include free synths!

These native synths are thin and weak in honest and direct comparison. The only plus side is they tend to use less CPU, which can be important.

That said, if one already owns Suite, as I do, one can make use of Instrument racks and layer native instruments. While layering won't change the basic sound palette available, it will at least beef up the sound a bit. Some saturation on that will take you a little further and will probably be great fun! At least until you figure out what takes hours to build with the native synths into satisfaction takes 10 minutes in many others. I have my favs, but the point is there are many that can compete.

The software synths I use stand up to genuine hardware, old and new. The native Ableton synths are nice for "charcoal" sketching, writing parts and playing around with, but they're not the oil painting of instruments.

I have no expectations on the new Wavetable synth, planning a session soon. I'll experience it with an open mind.

I'm always convinced talent means one can make great music with anything, so I don't mean you cannot make great music with the native synths. I simply choose not to. Life's too short.

I agree. 3rd party stuff blows away Suite. Those orchestral sounds are from the old Sonivox libraries where they sell them cheap and not proprietary. If you have Komplete the Suite can't even compare. Sampler is not very good after using Kontakt. The GUI's on Live synths takes some getting use to.

[Biome Digital]

You can buy Wavetable separately. And when you do that, it's basically like buying any separate synth in that manner (although it only works in Live, of course). The added benefit being, it's available to you in all the subsequent versions using this separate license even if you decide to go with Standard ...

I agree, though: it would be very nice if EVERY possible Suite plugin (also effects) could be bought separately if needed. The whole "you can kinda buy stuff separately, but there's a few very usable ones you can't" is something I don't fancy.

Yes, buying it separately and using with Live 10 standard is s good option.

[miyaru]

I like the sound of Wavetable, but it is hefty on the cpu though..... I also have Massive, and use that most of the time. I have Live 10 suite, to have everything there is from Ableton, and I like it, I play around with all the stuff when I have downtime in inspiration. I find it a luxary to do it this way, and I'm greatfull to have it all.

That said a good Pitch Correction kind a thing like Melodyne would be nice in suite though......