Ableton 10 is obsolet!

Discussion of anything not related to audio or music production
pencilrocket
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Re: Ableton 10 is obsolet!

Post by pencilrocket » Tue Jan 02, 2018 2:08 am

Machinesworking wrote: simple way to expand the MIDI clip editor to full screen with a key command instead of click dragging every dammed time?? Yes, but for some reason that last one isn't much of a concern to most Live users while it drives me batshit crazy to have to resize a window all the time. So I accept that it's not happening in Live and when I do complex MIDI work that requires a lot of editing I use other DAWs...
I cant agree more.
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Stromkraft
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Re: Ableton 10 is obsolet!

Post by Stromkraft » Tue Jan 02, 2018 9:44 am

Machinesworking wrote:It's pretty simple really, ad hominum of any kind isn't a valid response to any argument or mild disagreement you have with anybody.
I need to point out here that what have deleted from my own posts are "artes hominis indigentiam" suggestions, not ad hominum attacks. This happens almost on a daily basis here.

It's just that I, and all of us, can do this in a more friendly and constructive way without necessarily hurting anyone's feelings. Knowledge is after all the end objective and if this is shadowed by what is actually unnecessary, it's worth making an effort.

One method is to rely on facts and demonstrable proof. Both being something which I wish more disgruntled posters would rely on. Sometimes people need to express their dissatisfaction instead of seeking solutions. I find that somewhat frustrating, but that part can be ignored.
Make some music!

Stromkraft
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Re: Ableton 10 is obsolet!

Post by Stromkraft » Tue Jan 02, 2018 9:48 am

Machinesworking wrote: Would I have liked to see MPE and/or poly aftertouch, more key commands, and and simple way to expand the MIDI clip editor to full screen with a key command instead of click dragging every dammed time?? Yes, but for some reason that last one isn't much of a concern to most Live users while it drives me batshit crazy to have to resize a window all the time.

It drives me batshit crazy as well and yet I'm using only Live for MIDI and I'm upgrading to 10. I guess it's possible to accept Live for what it is and yet want to see some natural developments. OK, unsubbing now.
Make some music!

RadioOnMars
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Re: Ableton 10 is obsolet!

Post by RadioOnMars » Tue Jan 02, 2018 4:26 pm

dna598 wrote:
Razz CE wrote:Yeah capture is amazing. Stuff like this is one of the reasons i love Ableton. Companies like to throw around the word innovative but this actually is. And it really coalesces with Ableton's philosophy of facilitating the free flow of creativity.
This feature has been in Logic since v5, which is when i used it. Maybe even before then.... Just saying. :D
The design of Live requires a different design for such a feature. One major reason is that in Logic, Capture doesn't do anything if transport is stopped. Here, it's running quite a complex algorithm to determine the tempo and beat grid for all the notes. Plus, as Ableton has Session mode and clips, containing content that can adjusted, when you are overdubbing or playing to existing material, it creates a clip that best represents what you've done. These might for example, match the clip settings of your overdubbing tracks, and make sure they could be launched in time together. In Arrangement, with transport playing, it most like Logic, although it keeps previous iterations of the loop because you can roll the clip back.

Bombastic
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Re: Ableton 10 is obsolet!

Post by Bombastic » Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:27 am

weve been getting free updates for years in version 9, yes 10 looks a bit slim, but I feel like I need to pay Ableton for their great work over the years - so they can continue to do more..

however, now you mention it, an autotune/melodyne type thing in Ableton would be cool..

Stace30
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Re: Ableton 10 is obsolet!

Post by Stace30 » Thu Jan 04, 2018 3:40 pm

Bombastic wrote:however, now you mention it, an autotune/melodyne type thing in Ableton would be cool..
I would say +1 but I've just bought Melodyne 4 Essential!!
Live 10 Suite, M4L, MPC TOUCH - MPC software v2.7, Reason 4, Komplete 11, i7 Laptop, 12g Ram, Win 10, Adam A7's & Genelec 8010's - Joined Forum in 2006.

oxygen23
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Re: Ableton 10 is obsolet!

Post by oxygen23 » Fri Jan 05, 2018 8:59 am

RadioOnMars wrote:
dna598 wrote:
Razz CE wrote:Yeah capture is amazing. Stuff like this is one of the reasons i love Ableton. Companies like to throw around the word innovative but this actually is. And it really coalesces with Ableton's philosophy of facilitating the free flow of creativity.
This feature has been in Logic since v5, which is when i used it. Maybe even before then.... Just saying. :D
The design of Live requires a different design for such a feature. One major reason is that in Logic, Capture doesn't do anything if transport is stopped. Here, it's running quite a complex algorithm to determine the tempo and beat grid for all the notes. Plus, as Ableton has Session mode and clips, containing content that can adjusted, when you are overdubbing or playing to existing material, it creates a clip that best represents what you've done. These might for example, match the clip settings of your overdubbing tracks, and make sure they could be launched in time together. In Arrangement, with transport playing, it most like Logic, although it keeps previous iterations of the loop because you can roll the clip back.
Cubase had the same feature in past 20 years and it doesn't require transport to run.
I have to agree that for my expectation, after 5 years of developement Live 10 is major dissapointment, way-off what I expected after such a long period. I am not Bitwig user (yet, currently demo-ing) but I have to agree that Bitwig already has all the major features of Live 10 and much more. Regarding their subscription policy, nobody is forced to update, you can skip entire year and update whenever you feel that program advanced for your taste to upgrade.
Currently, only better thing in Live compared to Bitwig is Simpler, and new Simpler update for Live 9 is worth more than entire Live 10 list of changes (especially automation changes which are downgrade IMHO).
Now, regarding Capture, if you are on Mac, you can do it with any DAW with Capture MIDI app, which is suprisignly stunning and works better than native implementation 8O .
I am using it with Logic and Live and tested it with Bitwig, too - it works perfectly.
I prefer it over Logic's own implementation because you don't need to run transport and you can have multiple slots of captured MIDI. App is also really cheap http://www.audiocr.com/

SuburbanThug
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Re: Ableton 10 is obsolet!

Post by SuburbanThug » Sat Jan 06, 2018 11:06 pm

Crazy that people will complain about the UI still, haha. Hey, some of us have valid feature requests so lay off the UI thing, okay? This is why we have silly looking hammers these days. Some designer who's hardly used a hammer is like, "How can we improve the look and feel of this hammer?" UNNECESSARY! Yes, I am using all caps.

It would be cool if we could break out the native plug-ins when we need to look at two things at once. I'm always wishing I could do this with Tuner when working with my modular gear. Anybody? Bueller?

miyaru
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Re: Ableton 10 is obsolet!

Post by miyaru » Mon Jan 08, 2018 10:56 pm

Today I got acces to Live 10 Beta. It is certainly not obsolete!!! Works like a charm, I like the new synth and plugins, and also capture. Is it a lot of money to update? Is it to expensive? Once I have the money, I will upgrade, that's for shure. I had an expensive year musically: I bought Live 9 suite, Push 2 , Presonus Eris E8 monitors, an ESI MoCo monitorcontroller and a new PC in 2017.......

I think personally it is worth the upgrade, it has just got better. There are always reasons to nag about it, and the point is you have to have the money for it, not everybody does.

I think Push 2 excellerate in Live 10, and makes more sense then ever before. I played with for an hour, and will work with for many hours the next few days, and will chime in if I find something beautifull or strange with Live 10. But for now, I'm convinced - I want it!
Greetings from Miyaru.

Prodaw i7-7700, 16Gb Ram, Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 3rd gen, Live Suit 10, Push2, Reason Suite 11, Presonus Eris E8, Lexicon MPX1,
Korg N1, Korg R3, NI Massive, Rob Papen's Predator 2, Sonarworks Reference 4 and Scaler.

Machinesworking
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Re: Ableton 10 is obsolet!

Post by Machinesworking » Tue Jan 09, 2018 5:28 am

miyaru wrote: I think Push 2 excellerate in Live 10, and makes more sense then ever before.
This is key! if I was ever looking at Bitwig because of MPE support or it's much more intuitive modulation system, I'm not now.
Push 2 and Live 10 really feel like hardware in a way that only maybe Maschine Studio and v3 can match.

miyaru
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Re: Ableton 10 is obsolet!

Post by miyaru » Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:06 am

Altough not the cheapest combination, Live (suite) and Push (2) make life so easy while composing. If it wasn't for Push2, I never had made the step from Cubase (which I used for 20yrs or so). One small youtube movie made me do the switch, and yes spent a lot of money in one year.

I feel in Live 10, you need the computerscreen less and less, which is a good thing, as it only distracts from making music.
Greetings from Miyaru.

Prodaw i7-7700, 16Gb Ram, Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 3rd gen, Live Suit 10, Push2, Reason Suite 11, Presonus Eris E8, Lexicon MPX1,
Korg N1, Korg R3, NI Massive, Rob Papen's Predator 2, Sonarworks Reference 4 and Scaler.

Jarvisimon
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Re: Ableton 10 is obsolet!

Post by Jarvisimon » Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:05 pm

Just got my invitation to beta test today so have had a quick look at new instruments and effects. Definitely not obsolete but I am underwhelmed as i've already made my own work-arounds to many of the issues it's addressed.

I was thinking about going for the Suite but it's too pricey. Other than Max4Live, I already have a lot of plug-ins doing similar work.

Sorry Ableton but my wallet is closed for this update. Maybe in another 3 years time with Live 11.

SiLi
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Re: Ableton 10 is obsolet!

Post by SiLi » Wed Feb 28, 2018 12:42 am

Totally agree!! :evil:

It's more of a downgrade than an upgrade...I mean now you need to press A everytime you want to switch to automation view and press M if you want to use the keyboard as midi input...
Then there's the clips...I can't really select the right fade when 2 fades are close together. And the new size for dragging a clip (upper second half of the clip) is just making
it even worse!

I'm not even going to mention all the other stuff...but I mean creating a new small synth and not even adding Ctrl+Click Muli Selection...common??

Please Ableton!? Do you even look at the beta suggestions?
:|

Please contact me Ableton we need to fix the whole thing.

DukeOfPrunes
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Re: Ableton 10 is obsolet!

Post by DukeOfPrunes » Wed Feb 28, 2018 12:04 pm

I really want to embrace L10, and also thought the upgrade price was a bit steep for the new features offered, but I do understand that an injection of funds is required to keep the machine going. I'm all for that.

What really bothers me though, is the notable increase in CPU usage that makes Live 10 currently unusable for me. Now that really bums me out!

I hope that the dev. team will be able to fix these issues soon, as I really don't want to switch to another DAW, but am seriously starting to look at other options, which really sucks.

Jean.

Stromkraft
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Re: Ableton 10 is obsolet!

Post by Stromkraft » Wed Feb 28, 2018 7:50 pm

DukeOfPrunes wrote: What really bothers me though, is the notable increase in CPU usage that makes Live 10 currently unusable for me. Now that really bums me out!
I can understand that. I do hope you have reported your case to Ableton? So far, I have experienced the opposite with the 10 Suite beta, i e noticeably less CPU usage, though not by much. It could be certain sets does affect performance negatively. If so, it would be important to supply Ableton with data and if possible problem sets.

I'm just about to install the release of Live 10 Standard (with Max For Live), but I'd be somewhat surprised to see it use more CPU than the beta. I hope not.
Make some music!

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