Ableton 10 is obsolet!

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DukeOfPrunes
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Re: Ableton 10 is obsolet!

Post by DukeOfPrunes » Wed Feb 28, 2018 8:10 pm

Stromkraft wrote:
DukeOfPrunes wrote: What really bothers me though, is the notable increase in CPU usage that makes Live 10 currently unusable for me. Now that really bums me out!
I can understand that. I do hope you have reported your case to Ableton? So far, I have experienced the opposite with the 10 Suite beta, i e noticeably less CPU usage, though not by much. It could be certain sets does affect performance negatively. If so, it would be important to supply Ableton with data and if possible problem sets.

I'm just about to install the release of Live 10 Standard (with Max For Live), but I'd be somewhat surprised to see it use more CPU than the beta. I hope not.
I haven't yet had a chance to reach out to support, as I was doing some checks on my machine.

Power management, throttling, etc...

As well, I am assuming that with all the complaints on high CPU out there, that Ableton is already looking into these issue; I might be mistaken on that point.

I will hold the line for now.

H20nly
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Re: Ableton 10 is obsolet!

Post by H20nly » Wed Feb 28, 2018 8:13 pm

just read this thread :lol:


:lol:

same old shit. :roll:

thanks goodness for the useful bits.

DukeOfPrunes
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Re: Ableton 10 is obsolet!

Post by DukeOfPrunes » Wed Feb 28, 2018 8:17 pm

H20nly wrote:just read this thread :lol:


:lol:

same old shit. :roll:

thanks goodness for the useful bits.
I would love to be able to use the useful bits...

H20nly
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Re: Ableton 10 is obsolet!

Post by H20nly » Wed Feb 28, 2018 8:40 pm

well some some of the complaints come with ponderous scenarios attached and some of the rebuttals come with solutions and/or alternatives.

aside from the Live 10 specific features though... this thread is the same old song from Live 7,8,9 etc.
somebody rants, somebody defends, somebody loses their shit... rinse/repeat.

DukeOfPrunes
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Re: Ableton 10 is obsolet!

Post by DukeOfPrunes » Wed Feb 28, 2018 9:04 pm

H20nly wrote:well some some of the complaints come with ponderous scenarios attached and some of the rebuttals come with solutions and/or alternatives.

aside from the Live 10 specific features though... this thread is the same old song from Live 7,8,9 etc.
somebody rants, somebody defends, somebody loses their shit... rinse/repeat.
Fair enough.

I've tried all the solutions and came up short. I was very enthusiastic to dive deep into Live 10. Now, I am losing some of that steam.

I love this DAW and will do my best to hold the line. I would even buy a new box if I felt it would make this abnormal use of CPU disappear.

H20nly
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Re: Ableton 10 is obsolet!

Post by H20nly » Thu Mar 01, 2018 12:36 am

Ok, i'll bite...
DukeOfPrunes wrote:I really want to embrace L10, and also thought the upgrade price was a bit steep for the new features offered, but I do understand that an injection of funds is required to keep the machine going. I'm all for that.

What really bothers me though, is the notable increase in CPU usage that makes Live 10 currently unusable for me. Now that really bums me out!

I hope that the dev. team will be able to fix these issues soon, as I really don't want to switch to another DAW, but am seriously starting to look at other options, which really sucks.
but i don't see any details of your issue, unless i missed them. so the standard questions apply;

What OS are you using?
- If OS X, are you using Apple hardware or Hackintosh?

Is it up to date?

Is this a desktop or a laptop?
- If laptop, does the issue occur when plugged in, on battery, or both?

What audio interface are you using?
- Are the drivers up to date?

Are any other cpu hungry background processes running such as indexing, Antivirus tasks, backups, file transfers, etc. running when the issue occurs?


What speed is your hard drive (5400 rpm, 7200 rpm, SSD)?

what solutions have your tried?

oh and... to be sure... are you referring to Live's internal CPU load (inside the application) being high... or the OS CPU load?

DukeOfPrunes
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Re: Ableton 10 is obsolet!

Post by DukeOfPrunes » Thu Mar 01, 2018 10:35 am

H20nly wrote:Ok, i'll bite...
DukeOfPrunes wrote:I really want to embrace L10, and also thought the upgrade price was a bit steep for the new features offered, but I do understand that an injection of funds is required to keep the machine going. I'm all for that.

What really bothers me though, is the notable increase in CPU usage that makes Live 10 currently unusable for me. Now that really bums me out!

I hope that the dev. team will be able to fix these issues soon, as I really don't want to switch to another DAW, but am seriously starting to look at other options, which really sucks.
but i don't see any details of your issue, unless i missed them. so the standard questions apply;

What OS are you using?
- If OS X, are you using Apple hardware or Hackintosh?

Is it up to date?

Is this a desktop or a laptop?
- If laptop, does the issue occur when plugged in, on battery, or both?

What audio interface are you using?
- Are the drivers up to date?

Are any other cpu hungry background processes running such as indexing, Antivirus tasks, backups, file transfers, etc. running when the issue occurs?


What speed is your hard drive (5400 rpm, 7200 rpm, SSD)?

what solutions have your tried?

oh and... to be sure... are you referring to Live's internal CPU load (inside the application) being high... or the OS CPU load?
Thanks for you help in advance H20nly.

I am on a Desktop Win 8.1 (64 bit) platform and it is up to date

Audio Interfaces used via ASIO4All are either Focusrite 18i8 or Motu Ultralite Mk 4. Both Interfaces are running most recent drivers

When the issue occurs, I make sure to use Task Manager to end all processes that I can, without compromisng the system. Only process left is usually Norton (which is annoying btw)

Live 10 is installed on a 7200 rpm SATA drive, but the Factory packs are installed on a WD My Book 1140 USB Device and I do wonder if this might contribute to my CPU issue. There is one Factory pack in particular that has always been CPU hungry, even in Live 9. I have a SSD and all my 3rd party plug ins are installed on it, but it's not large enough (500gb) to run everything I need. In Live 10, I have run into this issue just by using one instance of Dune and Output Movement. When I disable Movement while running an Arppegiated note in Dune, the CPU notably drops.

I have a AMD A10-5700 with Radeon HD Graphics CPU chip running at 3.4 GHz. I checked if there was a throttling issue with cpuid and it is running at spec.
My RAM is 10gb.

In my Performance options - Processor Scheduling, I've tried either Adjust for Best Performance of Programs or Background Services. Either one of these options has no effect on reducing CPU usage.

And yes, when the issue occurs, it is Live 10's CPU indicator that is busting 100% and causes serious sound drop-outs, while the OS CPU usage is not close to 100% (as per Task Manager monitor).

I do wonder if my platform is getting old, but it seems that others with more recent platforms are also encountering these type of issues.

Let me know if you see any glaring issues H20nly?

Jean.

[jur]
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Re: Ableton 10 is obsolet!

Post by [jur] » Thu Mar 01, 2018 1:37 pm

Are you seeing such issues only when you using these specific plugins?
Ableton Forum Moderator

DukeOfPrunes
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Re: Ableton 10 is obsolet!

Post by DukeOfPrunes » Thu Mar 01, 2018 1:55 pm

[jur] wrote:Are you seeing such issues only when you using these specific plugins?
Nope, generally speaking, I've observed a systematic increase in CPU usage. Some of these have to do with too many polyphony voices, some have to do with certain samples that our heavily treated with effects. I've also noted that when I have my 2 audio interfaces enabled simultaneously via ASIO4ALL, this also seems to contribute adversely.

What bugs me though, is that I'm spending too much time patching issues via multiple combinations of solutions and not too much time making music. I'm not looking for spoon fed solutions, but just wish that I would be able to understand better where this increased usage is coming from, so that I can determine if there is an issue on my end, or if Live 10 has suddenly become a CPU hog.

I really enjoy Ableton and I've invested a fair amount of money (Live 9 Suite, Push 1 (full price, 1 month before Push 2 hit the market... :cry: ), and now, Live 10), so I really don't want to switch DAWs.

I come from a guitar oriented heavy metal background and Ableton (not an obvious connection, given my roots...) has actually helped me to move into other very interesting music areas (EDM, Synth and modular...), so I feel a special attachment to this creative platform.

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Re: Ableton 10 is obsolet!

Post by Tarekith » Thu Mar 01, 2018 2:26 pm

If you’re using asio4all it doesn’t matter if you have the lates soundcard drivers since that bypasses them. Do you need to use both sound cards at once? Also you mention too many voices as causing issues, what stunts are you using that causes this?

DukeOfPrunes
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Re: Ableton 10 is obsolet!

Post by DukeOfPrunes » Thu Mar 01, 2018 2:39 pm

Tarekith wrote:If you’re using asio4all it doesn’t matter if you have the lates soundcard drivers since that bypasses them. Do you need to use both sound cards at once? Also you mention too many voices as causing issues, what stunts are you using that causes this?
I use both sound cards simultaneously when integrating modular hardware (Control Voltage via either NI Reaktor, Silent Way) and VSTs (VCV rack, Reaktor) or at times using multiple mics plugged into both cards.

When using the hybrid set up (Hardware and VSTs) and certain NI Reaktor ensembles, I've busted the CPU.

As for polyphony, Diva's a bit of a hog on its own and I've had to reduce the number of voices in certain patches.

Many of these issues I had accepted as limitations, but now, it seems that I am encountering high CPU usage far too often, indicating a more systematic issue, as opposed to add-hoc exceptions.

H20nly
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Re: Ableton 10 is obsolet!

Post by H20nly » Thu Mar 01, 2018 4:59 pm

Norton... Can you disable it all together and/or put it in a discreet mode?

If it’s scanning files on execute there may be some issues with .wav files and the large file types a DAW deals with. It could also be fighting with the Ableton indexer. I would try disabling it entirely and see if the issue persists.

If the issue goes away, then you need to add exclusions for Ableton Live

DukeOfPrunes
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Re: Ableton 10 is obsolet!

Post by DukeOfPrunes » Thu Mar 01, 2018 5:19 pm

H20nly wrote:Norton... Can you disable it all together and/or put it in a discreet mode?

If it’s scanning files on execute there may be some issues with .wav files and the large file types a DAW deals with. It could also be fighting with the Ableton indexer. I would try disabling it entirely and see if the issue persists.

If the issue goes away, then you need to add exclusions for Ableton Live
Very good idea, I will give this a shot and report back.

Thank you,
Jean.

DukeOfPrunes
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Re: Ableton 10 is obsolet!

Post by DukeOfPrunes » Thu Mar 01, 2018 5:40 pm

DukeOfPrunes wrote:
H20nly wrote:Norton... Can you disable it all together and/or put it in a discreet mode?

If it’s scanning files on execute there may be some issues with .wav files and the large file types a DAW deals with. It could also be fighting with the Ableton indexer. I would try disabling it entirely and see if the issue persists.

If the issue goes away, then you need to add exclusions for Ableton Live
Very good idea, I will give this a shot and report back.

Thank you,
Jean.
I excluded Ableton from Norton as well as disabled Auto Protect and it seems to relieve the CPU usage. I still got a few drop outs, but certainly not as much.

Thanks for your help, I will continue testing and monitoring the usage.

DukeOfPrunes
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Re: Ableton 10 is obsolet!

Post by DukeOfPrunes » Thu Mar 01, 2018 5:56 pm

DukeOfPrunes wrote:
DukeOfPrunes wrote:
H20nly wrote:Norton... Can you disable it all together and/or put it in a discreet mode?

If it’s scanning files on execute there may be some issues with .wav files and the large file types a DAW deals with. It could also be fighting with the Ableton indexer. I would try disabling it entirely and see if the issue persists.

If the issue goes away, then you need to add exclusions for Ableton Live
Very good idea, I will give this a shot and report back.

Thank you,
Jean.
I excluded Ableton from Norton as well as disabled Auto Protect and it seems to relieve the CPU usage. I still got a few drop outs, but certainly not as much.

Thanks for your help, I will continue testing and monitoring the usage.
I have now excluded the Ableton Live Suite 10 main executable, excluded Ableton Index from Norton and disabled Auto Protect. It would seem Norton is the culprit. Dammed Norton! I would not have thought to do this on my own.

Thank you very much again!

Jean.

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