Ableton 10 is obsolet!

Discussion of anything not related to audio or music production
pencilrocket
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Re: Ableton 10 is obsolet!

Post by pencilrocket » Sun Dec 31, 2017 10:29 am

nathannn wrote:snip
holy detailed post. It reminds me of this article.
https://venturebeat.com/2016/10/25/why- ... e-ballmer/

Trendy companies have something in common.
Image

jamief
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Re: Ableton 10 is obsolet!

Post by jamief » Sun Dec 31, 2017 1:19 pm

Ive been using live since V1. And im not going anywhere as its built into the DNA of everything i do musically and we use a shit load of outboard hardware synths, drums, sequencers etc etc combined with all the full suite of plugins from every manufacture out there.
Iv avoided Push etc etc as its just another shity computer interface to navigate my ideas through and find away of true expression coming through. For me nothing beats hardware for expression and nothing beats live for being the central sync and DAW unit we run from.
Lives FX are defo a bit dated but i never use them anyway.

Ableton HQ is a very different animal from the early days.

jamief
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Re: Ableton 10 is obsolet!

Post by jamief » Sun Dec 31, 2017 1:26 pm

Peace all
Last edited by jamief on Sun Dec 31, 2017 7:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[jur]
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Re: Ableton 10 is obsolet!

Post by [jur] » Sun Dec 31, 2017 3:40 pm

jamief wrote:Emotionally useless irrespective of any technical ability or know how. Superiority and persecution complex next please - bizarre.
Stromkraft wrote:@chuckthetoast and @fisto, your future DAW plans and your personal life choices are totally uninteresting. These are the user forums not your psychological counselling group. We don't need to know these things.

Also, it's "obsolete".

Bye, bye!
Stromkraft is generous at helping people and generous he is at pissing off people.
Please ignore him from now on, we might need to discuss for a solution with [erm] I think.
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Stromkraft
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Re: Ableton 10 is obsolet!

Post by Stromkraft » Sun Dec 31, 2017 3:44 pm

[jur] wrote:
jamief wrote:Emotionally useless irrespective of any technical ability or know how. Superiority and persecution complex next please - bizarre.
Stromkraft wrote:A comment directed to @chuckthetoast and @fisto was [deleted by Stromkraft].
Stromkraft is generous at helping people and generous he is at pissing off people.
Please ignore him from now on, we might need to discuss for a solution with [erm] I think.
This has already been executed. Just delete the offending messages already.
Last edited by Stromkraft on Sun Dec 31, 2017 4:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Make some music!

jamief
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Re: Ableton 10 is obsolet!

Post by jamief » Sun Dec 31, 2017 4:04 pm

This is a sign of intelligence starting to hate on people that don't get it quick enough so thats good as is the leaning towards helping others regularly Unfortunately though not everyone on this forum works at that level and will require support to even gain the confidence to ask the things on this forum that are troubling them. Peace all happy new year.
[jur] wrote:
jamief wrote:Emotionally useless irrespective of any technical ability or know how. Superiority and persecution complex next please - bizarre.
Stromkraft wrote:@chuckthetoast and @fisto, your future DAW plans and your personal life choices are totally uninteresting. These are the user forums not your psychological counselling group. We don't need to know these things.

Also, it's "obsolete".

Bye, bye!
Stromkraft is generous at helping people and generous he is at pissing off people.
Please ignore him from now on, we might need to discuss for a solution with [erm] I think.

Stromkraft
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Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:34 am

Re: Ableton 10 is obsolet!

Post by Stromkraft » Sun Dec 31, 2017 4:11 pm

OK, I'm cleaning my posts. I'm sorry about this, Jamief and others…

Later: OK, edited away unnecessary language. It's up to the posters that included quotes from the previous unedited versions, or to the administrators, to edit also the quotes.
Make some music!

jestermgee
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Re: Ableton 10 is obsolet!

Post by jestermgee » Sun Dec 31, 2017 11:34 pm

Stromkraft wrote:OK, I'm cleaning my posts. I'm sorry about this, Jamief and others…

Later: OK, edited away unnecessary language. It's up to the posters that included quotes from the previous unedited versions, or to the administrators, to edit also the quotes.
@Stromkraft, please try and tone things down a little (maybe even the size of your Waves signature :D ). This is the second or third time I have seen you have to cull your responses and I would hate to see the knowledgeable input you DO provide be drowned out by these personal-view bickering fests and this is what I was alluding to with my post the other day where we solved the chaps question and it didn't need any further input for the sake of it.

Trying to say this as sincere as possible because most of the input you provide to other users is very appreciated but it's not your job to have all the answers and occasionally others try to get involved in some conversations but seem to get side swiped if they have an opposing view and it could be driving people away.

Lets not see another "funken" situation here (joke at the mods/older folks who will know that name very well).

Stromkraft
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Re: Ableton 10 is obsolet!

Post by Stromkraft » Mon Jan 01, 2018 12:11 am

jestermgee wrote: @Stromkraft, please try and tone things down a little (maybe even the size of your Waves signature :D ).
OK, point taken. Let's now get back to the subject matter of this discussion. Which I believe is disappointment with the Live 10 update. I think I'll stay out of the way so it's totally safe to share.
Make some music!

[erm]
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Re: Ableton 10 is obsolet!

Post by [erm] » Mon Jan 01, 2018 1:06 am

jestermgee wrote:Lets not see another "funken" situation here (joke at the mods/older folks who will know that name very well).
This is exactly our concern.
Ableton Forum Administrator

[jur]
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Re: Ableton 10 is obsolet!

Post by [jur] » Mon Jan 01, 2018 4:46 am

I miss Funken so much :lol:
Ableton Forum Moderator

jbodango
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Re: Ableton 10 is obsolet!

Post by jbodango » Mon Jan 01, 2018 10:36 am

[jur] wrote:I miss Funken so much :lol:
Now that you mention him... what was the straw that broke the camel's back... besides everything?

Tarekith
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Re: Ableton 10 is obsolet!

Post by Tarekith » Mon Jan 01, 2018 4:42 pm

We don’t discuss users that have been banned since they are not able to defend themselves anymore.

Let’s just say it doesn’t matter how helpful you are, you still have to follow the community guidelines like everyone else.

Machinesworking
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Re: Ableton 10 is obsolet!

Post by Machinesworking » Mon Jan 01, 2018 10:34 pm

It's pretty simple really, ad hominum of any kind isn't a valid response to any argument or mild disagreement you have with anybody. In "real life" or on the internet. There's a big difference between discussing things you disagree or have issue with, and people you disagree with or have issues with. Granted it isn't always easy when someone more or less says, "I hate this thing you like!" The progression is commonly to "I hate you then!" :x

Machinesworking
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Re: Ableton 10 is obsolet!

Post by Machinesworking » Mon Jan 01, 2018 11:08 pm

nathannn wrote: Hey, Machinesworking!

I Agree with your first point, but the second one I am having trouble understanding.

What daw does not come with a suite of plugins nowadays? Like you said with Logic or Cubase the upgrade cost is much cheaper than Live and they are both feature rich daws. Logic has offered many free upgrades and comes with some excellent plugins and a wave table synth.
A larger portion of Live's built in plug ins are from third parties, The Glue, AAS, and the recent acquisition of Cycling 74 all have added cost compared to Logic or Cubase etc.




I personally dont see a major upgrade when I view the new specs of Live 10. Live has a session view, but is lacking so many features that are essential to a modern daw. At this point it seems wiser just to use Live Standard for the session view and another daw for the real production work.

It really makes me wonder what the people at Ableton are thinking for the future if they are so behind in the present. Live could at least use a major overhal to its 17 year old UI. Users have posted mock ups to give Ableton Ideas and Ableton just adds a few curves here and there and flattens the transport.
Most upgrades from most DAW manufacturers are not extreme improvements but a series of incremental upgrades; if those upgrades don't appeal to you then the upgrade will seem weak. I didn't jump on 9 because a lot of things it brought did not appeal to me, but I will upgrade to 10 right away, because they do. :)
Still no editing of clips within session view.
Explain, that doesn't make any sense as a stand alone sentence.
Same UI that is no longer future or modern looking.
I think it's obvious by now Ableton aren't bending to anyones concerns with the GUI.
Acceptance is key.

No chord tracks
No Modern tempo mapping (look at cubase or melodyne)
No Time signature detection
No plug ins to add variation to the tempo
No ARA
NO custom commands
No Take Tracks
No pitch correction
There is time signature detection, if you mean tempo map taken from information embedded in the file I get you there.
Don't personally care about chord tracks, plug ins to add variation to the tempo, ARA etc. Pitch correction, or more involved pitch detection would be handy, but it's not the end of the world for me.
and then there is the lack of modern plugin content

No change to a very simple and strange take on amp simulation
No professional acoustic drum kit
No built in stereo reverb
No built in surround
No built in electronic drum kit.
No Modern Analog sounding synthesizers, AAS instruments were made in different era that required low cpu usage and really are not up to par
Almost every daw has a plug in that can emulate a ssl bus compressor.
Some people do find max for live to be very useful but should it really be used as a replacement for plugins that are integrated in other daws?
Not even slightly convincing acoustic instrument samples.
No change to the THREE band "Multi" band compression? Why couldn't they add unlimited bands?
No additional macro's added to racks
I generally don't use much embedded plug ins so I don't share those concerns, but I have to admit the new Wavetable and Echo are really very useful and I'm using them. Max for Live is miles above what other DAWs offer in terms of modular systems, I get it being a niche thing to some, but it is a huge feature to others in terms of Live VS other DAWs. Basically, if Max For Live isn't for you, and you do not look at the new plug ins, then you will think other DAWs are better etc. Don't know what to tell you? Live Suite offers a huge amount of plug in and sample content, it's not all useful to me, but to deny it's useful doesn't make too much sense to me.

No upgrade to the heavily used rack system

All I am really seeing in this upgrade is the addition of capture recording, some browser tweeks and minor changes to the ui.

Ableton Live was the first daw I really clicked with and I loved it, it was the future and continued to be innovative for years, but it seems like all that came to a halt with the release of Live 9. I really hope they dont go down the Propellerheads Path.
All of this comes down to what you personally find useful or not useful with this upgrade. Capture is cool to me, but I'm all in about the Push 2 usability in Rewire slave mode, SysEx, Wavetable and general tweaks to the UI. Would I have liked to see MPE and/or poly aftertouch, more key commands, and and simple way to expand the MIDI clip editor to full screen with a key command instead of click dragging every dammed time?? Yes, but for some reason that last one isn't much of a concern to most Live users while it drives me batshit crazy to have to resize a window all the time. So I accept that it's not happening in Live and when I do complex MIDI work that requires a lot of editing I use other DAWs...

It's still not Ableton's fault though, it's simply that they're not worried about the things I'm worried about because they still mostly please their user base. If an upgrade rolls out and no one jumps on it, they will get busy and add more content the next upgrade. Conversely they have to stay true to the vision they have, which isn't necessarily mine or yours. This is true of most DAWs, but Live has tried to stay "lean" in the sense that they've had their own vision of how you are to work with a DAW, every other DAW is based on a linear time frame and essentially chasing features from other DAWs, Ableton went in a different direction, and we end users liked that enough to buy into it, but we also want all DAW features we see from other DAWs as well. We want Live to be lean and fat at the same time... :x

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