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 Post subject: Going to be getting a new MacBook pro and need some advice
PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 5:23 pm 

Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2016 11:56 pm
Posts: 105
So i've recently been getting fed with constantly having to bounce about 4 to 5 different times within an arrangement to achieve where i want to be. I currently have a 2015 13' Mac Book pro with 8GB of ram, running Ableton 9.7.4 and haven't upgraded to 10 cause just feel like if something not broke don't fix it.

I'm in the middle of mixing an EP for somebody, we're getting ready to lay all the vocals and i just dread that the cpu is going to start going crazy after i start treating all the vocal chains. the new MacBook Pro's just came out and claims to be 70 times faster for the 15 inch model and can come with 32GB of ram, 2.9ghz 6-core 8th generation intel core i9 processor, turbo boost up to 4.8ghz, this is the one i'm thinking about getting as well as a Uad Octo accelerator to compliment the Apollo twin duo and quad accelerator i already have

My question is will this computer be able to hold an arrangement through all the way without bouncing? of course i will be bouncing vst's to audio when i'm set with what i want but would like the option of not sometimes. So lets just say hypothetically that i wanted to do an entire mix down even with the mastering chain in one arrangement, you think this MacBook could hold up? for instance opening up various GUI's and playback and all. Or do you think its a safer bet going with the iMac pro?

Also has Ableton 10 been responding well with these Mac Book pro's and would i still be able to run live 9 and get the same results.


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 Post subject: Re: Going to be getting a new MacBook pro and need some advice
PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 3:53 am 

Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2016 11:56 pm
Posts: 105
bump

but i also wanted to know if i should be using audio units instead of vst's or does it matter?

thanks


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 Post subject: Re: Going to be getting a new MacBook pro and need some advice
PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 10:31 am 

Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:34 am
Posts: 7055
Artcutech wrote:
My question is will this computer be able to hold an arrangement through all the way without bouncing? of course i will be bouncing vst's to audio when i'm set with what i want but would like the option of not sometimes. So lets just say hypothetically that i wanted to do an entire mix down even with the mastering chain in one arrangement, you think this MacBook could hold up? for instance opening up various GUI's and playback and all.


That depends on your arrangement and what you put in your tracks, doesn't it? So who can answer when you withhold vital data? Or even if you didn't?

Artcutech wrote:
Or do you think its a safer bet going with the iMac pro?

If you don't need portable, yes.

Artcutech wrote:
…would i still be able to run live 9 and get the same results.


You can't get the same results with Live 9 as in Live 10 unless you ignore all new possibilities in 10 and what was dropped from 9. These are strikingly different versions. Performance-wise I believe they are equal, barring the want to use specific plug-ins that may not work as well in 10 as in 9. Do your research (not allowing edge cases pose as true for everyone) for what you use.

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 Post subject: Re: Going to be getting a new MacBook pro and need some advice
PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 10:35 am 

Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:34 am
Posts: 7055
Artcutech wrote:
but i also wanted to know if i should be using audio units instead of vst's or does it matter?


It's an old habit I adopted, as suggested by other members 6 years back and more, to use VSTs when they are available and ignore AUs more or less completely. I haven't regretted this move yet at all. Is ti absolutely necessary? Probably not.

Unless you constantly move between Logic and Live there are no upsides to AUs that I can see, only downsides such as no MIDI out from AU plug-ins. So why would you use AUs? Maybe there are reasons, but I'm ignorant of them.

I do use some plug-ins that have no VST 2 version as AU.

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Last edited by Stromkraft on Sun Jul 15, 2018 9:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Going to be getting a new MacBook pro and need some advice
PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 12:43 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 03, 2009 3:02 am
Posts: 6285
Location: Menasha, Wisconsin
A 13’ 2015 MacBook Pro is probably a dual core processor.

The ones coming out in the near future will be quad. If you reeeally want to make sure you will have minimal issues, get a 15’.

But yeah. Wait for the new line to come out. They are a dramatic bump up in performance from the current options. Well, in theory they should be. I haven’t used them first hand of course haha


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 Post subject: Re: Going to be getting a new MacBook pro and need some advice
PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 12:46 pm 

Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 4:50 am
Posts: 3934
Artcutech wrote:
So i've recently been getting fed with constantly having to bounce about 4 to 5 different times within an arrangement to achieve where i want to be. I currently have a 2015 13' Mac Book pro with 8GB of ram, running Ableton 9.7.4 and haven't upgraded to 10 cause just feel like if something not broke don't fix it.

I'm in the middle of mixing an EP for somebody, we're getting ready to lay all the vocals and i just dread that the cpu is going to start going crazy after i start treating all the vocal chains. the new MacBook Pro's just came out and claims to be 70 times faster for the 15 inch model and can come with 32GB of ram, 2.9ghz 6-core 8th generation intel core i9 processor, turbo boost up to 4.8ghz, this is the one i'm thinking about getting


the new 2018 top spec model is "up to" 70% faster than the 2017 MBP 15" models (someone wrote "70 times faster" in an article, but it must have been a mistake).

you didn't specify exactly which MBP 13" you have, but the 2018 MBP you mentioned is about 3–4 times more powerful than your current machine for multicore tasks. it would make a big difference to your workflow.

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For an ever lasting sound ... turn sustain, decay and release all the way up and lay a brick on your keyboard. You also want to leave your computer on for this. Don't move the brick.


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 Post subject: Re: Going to be getting a new MacBook pro and need some advice
PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 12:48 pm 

Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 4:50 am
Posts: 3934
yur2die4 wrote:
A 13’ 2015 MacBook Pro is probably a dual core processor.


definitely. the MBP 13" that have just been released are the first quad-core ones ever.

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smutek wrote:
For an ever lasting sound ... turn sustain, decay and release all the way up and lay a brick on your keyboard. You also want to leave your computer on for this. Don't move the brick.


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 Post subject: Re: Going to be getting a new MacBook pro and need some advice
PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 5:49 pm 

Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2016 11:56 pm
Posts: 105
thanks for all the advice! Sorry i meant 70% faster @ fishmonkey, and the MacBook pro's i'm talking about just came out this week(i think? i got an e-mail on the 12th) so i felt like jumping on one

Stromkraft wrote:
Artcutech wrote:

That depends on your arrangement and what you put in your tracks, doesn't it? So who can answer when you withhold vital data? Or even if you didn't?

Artcutech wrote:
Or do you think its a safer bet going with the iMac pro?

If you don't need portable, yes.

Artcutech wrote:
…would i still be able to run live 9 and get the same results.


You can't get the same results with Live 9 as in Live 10 unless you ignore all new possibilities in 10 and what was dropped from 9. These are strikingly different versions. Performance-wise I believe they are equal, barring the want to use specific plug-ins that may not work as well in 10 as in 9. Do your research (not allowing edge cases pose as true for everyone) for what you use.


prob running 18 to 20 tracks total including vst's vocals and groups, some Reaktor/Kontact/Simpler/Omnisphere almost all with multiple fab-filter/uad plug-ins(those are DSP powered i know but still) and some ozone and miscellaneous stuff here and there.

i talked to an engineer buddy of mine and showed him those specs and he was like, yeah that should hold all of it including mastering chain, that like double what i have, but who knows.

my current setup i can't even load a couple of simpler instances pushed to the max treated with mixing chains and couple of omnisphere instances without getting some clipping on playback and having to bounce. all my libraries are on a external drives and only minimal stuff on my internal hard disk space, plus activity monitor shows my ram getting eaten up super quick with playback.

yeah Storm for some reason the new Mac book pros have a higher turbo boost at 4.8GHz and if i'm looking correctly the highest end iMac pro has 4.5GHZ turbo boost

yur2die4 wrote:
A 13’ 2015 MacBook Pro is probably a dual core processor.

The ones coming out in the near future will be quad. If you reeeally want to make sure you will have minimal issues, get a 15’.

But yeah. Wait for the new line to come out. They are a dramatic bump up in performance from the current options. Well, in theory they should be. I haven’t used them first hand of course haha


sup yur2die4! yeah it just came out this week, has 6 cores a i9 and 32 gb or ram that's the one i'm thinking about getting

fishmonkey wrote:
Artcutech wrote:
So i've recently been getting fed with constantly having to bounce about 4 to 5 different times within an arrangement to achieve where i want to be. I currently have a 2015 13' Mac Book pro with 8GB of ram, running Ableton 9.7.4 and haven't upgraded to 10 cause just feel like if something not broke don't fix it.

I'm in the middle of mixing an EP for somebody, we're getting ready to lay all the vocals and i just dread that the cpu is going to start going crazy after i start treating all the vocal chains. the new MacBook Pro's just came out and claims to be 70 times faster for the 15 inch model and can come with 32GB of ram, 2.9ghz 6-core 8th generation intel core i9 processor, turbo boost up to 4.8ghz, this is the one i'm thinking about getting


the new 2018 top spec model is "up to" 70% faster than the 2017 MBP 15" models (someone wrote "70 times faster" in an article, but it must have been a mistake).

you didn't specify exactly which MBP 13" you have, but the 2018 MBP you mentioned is about 3–4 times more powerful than your current machine for multicore tasks. it would make a big difference to your workflow.


lol at 70 times faster

this the one i have now

2.7 Ghz intel core i5
8GB of ram

i might just go with a regular iMac pushed to the max so much more cost effective, i don't know if the I7 processor is that much of difference than the Xeon on the iMac Pro for what im trying to do, more so the ram huh?


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 Post subject: Re: Going to be getting a new MacBook pro and need some advice
PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 6:24 pm 

Joined: Sun May 05, 2013 11:25 am
Posts: 320
Location: +ICXC·NIKA+
Do not buy Apple. I have 3 Apple computers now for different projects (iMac, MB, MBP).
Their OS will be obsolete every 3 years. Than Ableton will not support it on your system.
After 20 years in music business on Apple, my next computer will not be Apple, for sure. I know what I am talking about. They don't respect any more the stability of complex music studios. Constant upgrades and updates make me sick of it. Do.not.buy.apple. You will need to pay a high price for that!

EDIT: When I bought my MBP 2015 I took the very powerful one. It turned out that just this version "Haswell/Crystalwell" 2.5 GHz Intel "Core i7" processor (4870HQ) - is badly performing Ableton Live. I get VERY HIGH heat, constantly. And not only me.

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 Post subject: Re: Going to be getting a new MacBook pro and need some advice
PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 10:11 pm 

Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:34 am
Posts: 7055
8E wrote:
[size=125]
Their OS will be obsolete every 3 years. Than Ableton will not support it on your system.


This is misguiding I think. Ableton supported Windows XP and Vista (!) and OS X 10.5 (!) up until Live 9.2 was released in June 2015. That's a music business rare support just short of 14 years for XP and 8 and a half years support for both Vista and OS X 10.5.

Ableton are still supporting OS X 10.11 with Live 10. So now you're claiming they will drop support this autumn for that version as it was released 3 years ago on September 30th?

Reality is that unless hardware drivers needing updating forces you to upgrade your OS, you don't have to if you use your machine predominantly for music. Sometimes this means staying with some version of your plug-ins as that is also driving OS updates much more than Ableton does with Live.

I feel everyone should get the macines they want to get. My next machine will be either a Hackintosh or a new sixcore MBP or both.

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 Post subject: Re: Going to be getting a new MacBook pro and need some advice
PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 10:41 pm 

Joined: Sun May 05, 2013 11:25 am
Posts: 320
Location: +ICXC·NIKA+
Stromkraft wrote:
8E wrote:
[size=125]
Their OS will be obsolete every 3 years. Than Ableton will not support it on your system.


This is misguiding I think. Ableton supported Windows XP and Vista (!) and OS X 10.5 (!) up until Live 9.2 was released in June 2015. That's a music business rare support just short of 14 years for XP and 8 and a half years support for both Vista and OS X 10.5.

Ableton are still supporting OS X 10.11 with Live 10. So now you're claiming they will drop support this autumn for that version as it was released 3 years ago on September 30th?

Reality is that unless hardware drivers needing updating forces you to upgrade your OS, you don't have to if you use your machine predominantly for music. Sometimes this means staying with some version of your plug-ins as that is also driving OS updates much more than Ableton does with Live.

I feel everyone should get the macines they want to get. My next machine will be either a Hackintosh or a new sixcore MBP or both.

Sorry, your post is misleading.
Ableton 10 supports 10.11 - it is OS X from 2015. Three years. Apple stops support it in September. Any larger update of Ableton will take this in account.
On the contrary, Ableton 10 supports Windows 7, that is time of OSX Snow Leopard, 2009! That I am talking about.

Windows 7 on a new, contemporary machine runs extremely fast, since the hardware is far more advanced than 2009. And how long will W7 be supported? Until 2020.

These are the facts.

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 Post subject: Re: Going to be getting a new MacBook pro and need some advice
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 12:41 am 

Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 4:50 am
Posts: 3934
Artcutech wrote:
i might just go with a regular iMac pushed to the max so much more cost effective, i don't know if the I7 processor is that much of difference than the Xeon on the iMac Pro for what im trying to do, more so the ram huh?


to get a rough idea of the relative power of different Macs, have a look here:

https://browser.geekbench.com/mac-benchmarks/

note that the results are in two main categories: single-core and multi-core. single-core is the maximum performance on tasks that are bound to a single processor core, and multi-core is for tasks that can be spread across multiple cores. roughly speaking multi-core performance is more relevant for your purposes.

_________________
smutek wrote:
For an ever lasting sound ... turn sustain, decay and release all the way up and lay a brick on your keyboard. You also want to leave your computer on for this. Don't move the brick.


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 Post subject: Re: Going to be getting a new MacBook pro and need some advice
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 1:41 am 

Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:34 am
Posts: 7055
8E wrote:
Ableton 10 supports 10.11 - it is OS X from 2015. Three years. Apple stops support it in September. Any larger update of Ableton will take this in account.


Not necessarily. Ableton do not have to care about Apple dropping security updates and similar, if they do that. They only have to care about whether it's reasonable to support previous OS versions with their software.

You implied Ableton like clockwork must stop supporting previous versions after three years. If this becomes true is not so predictable as you pretend as a number of technical factors and company decisions lie behind Ableton's decisions in this case.

One may also ask why a major version update that works on older hardware must be a problem in itself. I installed macOS 10.12 on a MBP from 2009 last year. Worked great.

I maintain that hardware drivers is the primary force behind one needing to do major macOS updates, not DAW software.

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Last edited by Stromkraft on Mon Jul 16, 2018 8:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Going to be getting a new MacBook pro and need some advice
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 4:44 am 

Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2016 11:56 pm
Posts: 105
Thanks for all the feed back guys! i Just got the one initially mentioned, had to drive 30 miles to pick up one that was in store, also picked up 2 Uad Octo satellites for $800 a piece before taxes, now i'm up to 22 core dsp, this will allow me to have a neve 1073 or ssl channel strip on all of my tracks and do whatever else i need with the Uad plugs with no bouncing.

Sup 8E, not sure where your getting your info from or what you've experienced but my understanding and experience so far has been a little different as far as longevity, I was reading your post when I was at the store and started laughing to myself thinking will this thing be obsolete in 3 years? i highly doubt it. I think 7 years easy before she's almost ready to retire but i'm happy with a strong 5, the thing came out 4 days ago! i honestly think my 2015 MBP can get another 4-5 yers before her time has come.

here's the specs on the one i got and price

15-inch MacBook Pro - Space Gray
With the following configuration:
2.9GHz 6‑core 8th‑generation Intel Core i9 processor, Turbo Boost up to 4.8GHz
Retina display with True Tone
Touch Bar and Touch ID
Radeon Pro 560X with 4GB of GDDR5 memory
32GB 2400MHz DDR4 memory
1TB SSD storage
Four Thunderbolt 3 ports
Backlit Keyboard - US English
Accessory Kit
$3,589.00
Qty 1
$3,589.00

about 3,800 after taxes came with a free pair of beats

this should allow a full mix no bounce but we'll see, definitely think i'm going to be running Live 9.7.4 for now


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 Post subject: Re: Going to be getting a new MacBook pro and need some advice
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 8:35 am 

Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2002 1:50 pm
Posts: 1857
Location: Awakend
Made my order at weekend.

Apple OD will be obsolete on three years - right your are 8O :lol:


15-inch MacBook Pro - Space Grey

Hardware:
2.9GHz 6-core 8th-generation Intel Core i9 processor, Turbo Boost up to 4.8GHz
Radeon Pro 560X with 4GB of GDDR5 memory
32GB 2400MHz DDR4 memory
2TB SSD storage
Retina display with True Tone
Four Thunderbolt 3 ports
Touch Bar and Touch ID
Backlit Keyboard - British
Accessory Kit
Software:
macOS
Photos, iMovie, GarageBand
Pages, Numbers, Keynote
Logic Pro X


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