Ableton Forum

This is not a rant about Apple computers. I am just looking for a professional advice and recommendation.
The time has come for me to stop using apple products.
Price, portability and upgradeability is the issue. It is unaffordable and not portable. It doesn't make sense anymore. Since there are now high end PC's with monster specs and thunderbolt 3 port, does anyone have experience, recommendations, issues, complaints etc...

I currently have macbook pro mid 2012 with 16GB RAM, works fine until it dies... I plan to get thunderbolt Apollo Twin for real time DSP.
I run over 200 channels in live set with Push2, Touche, Minilab, bunch VST's plugins, mostly Arturia V-Collection, NI Komplete, Soundtoys,...
Buffer is set always to 512 when playing live. Not a great buffer for playing percussion on your pads. CPU is at 25-30% so it doesn't rape the machine and overheat the cpu. But changing tempo for example, the cpu spikes and it starts crackling.

I have tried freezing channels in live, and did not have good experience with it. Frozen tracks of NI Komplete like Machine and Reaktor would crash the project, and most of the time the project would be hang up at 38% loading. Then I need to disable VST, unfreeze the track, restart, rescan, save. It is pretty tedious process, especially when your show is about to start. So that is out of the question until I get some time to update to the latest NI and get some free time to test it out.

Which Laptop PC will give me a smooth operation and a large project load for playing live? I am looking at newegg website and most of high end laptops are gaming, so it is a bit confusing.
Also, I have searched ableton website for recommendation, but it is pretty generic and general, like CPU, RAM, HD

I don't need the top of the line, but second or third on the list. If you are a geek, you will know what I mean by this.

I really need to hear other people's experiences with large projects on PC laptop live.

Cheers

IF you go PC get an RME interface for solid drivers, nothing is more important than that, dont go UAD on windows their drivers are not as good as RME.

As for the computer I would suggest strongly: get it from a place where you can return it easily and get other model, you might want to try a few and see which performs better.

I would start with razer, then lenovo thinkpad line, then MSI.

I, too am thinking of going to PC, but as soon as I match the specs of a MacBook Pro, the price is the same

So you'll have to sacrifice on certain things you don't need to have a better price.

The other thing is you'll need to install 3rd party softwares like LoopBe in order to have virtual midi ports (The equivalent of IAC Driver) if you use this feature

Pc'S have SSD's which are 6 times slower than Mac HD's.

You can get an ASUS computer for less than 2000$ that will run your plugins, but make sure to check the processor speed on this website: passmark cpu :https://www.cpubenchmark.net/

Also, last time i checked, the Apollo Twin soundcard with Thunderbolt connector did not work on PC. You have to get the USB Apollo Twin. I have both RME and Apollo sound card and they are both amazing. My RME works great on my desktop PC.

Hope this helps

I was not informed that PC SSD run 6 times slower than mac. I will need to do more research.
It is just hard for me to accept that high end PC laptop costs as much as macbook pro.
In this case, I will bring my desktop computer to my gigs. It is more portable for that matter and less things to hook up during stage set up.

"Pc'S have SSD's which are 6 times slower than Mac HD's."


Uh... no.




Anyway the most important part of this current equation is what your budget is.

Most bang for your buck is probably going to be a pre-built gaming PC. But there are certainly other options.

Also if you can hold out until November you can usually get great black friday / cyber monday deals.

SSD are in fact slower than the PCIe HD that Mac uses but SSDs are already very fast,there are some pics with pCIe or M2 head drives but they are expensive

There has to be direct competition to macbook pro. Maybe surfacebook 3?
I mean, to jack up ram, you have to buy it exclusively from apple for +600$
Same as SSD, but as I am seeing the prices are not as nearly as that for PC.

Budget is definitely not a 5k for a laptop that will go to gigs in high humidity places, like jungle.
But I need CPU, RAM and HD power

If I can run 200+ channels of VST’s samples, loops, plugins...all of that on 128 buffer, that would be good...

lapieuvre wrote:Pc'S have SSD's which are 6 times slower than Mac HD's.

i don't think this is true.

Macs used to have much better bus speeds which allowed them to access drives faster, but even if that is still the case, i doubt it is 6 times faster.

even if it is (anything is possible), the difference is probably hardly perceivable - if at all with SSDs

it may have been a difference in SSD types that was being spoken to. but "PCs" is too broad a term... there are about 7 Mac models vs. 7000-ish PC models. one of those PCs is likely to use the exact same and/or equal performing parts.

are you looking for a 13" or 15" machine?

if you are after a 15" machine, the main Windows contenders appear in this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTguywiC9aw

if you are considering 13", then the 2018 MacBook Pro is a beast for a 13" machine...

sonik777 wrote:"Pc'S have SSD's which are 6 times slower than Mac HD's."


Uh... no.

Uh... Yes

https://www.computerworld.com/article/3 ... aptop.html

SSD speed is around 500Mb/sec. new MBP 3.1 Gb/s

lapieuvre wrote:

sonik777 wrote:"Pc'S have SSD's which are 6 times slower than Mac HD's."
Uh... no.

Uh... Yes
https://www.computerworld.com/article/3 ... aptop.html
SSD speed is around 500Mb/sec. new MBP 3.1 Gb/s

It's the phrasing which is wrong.

Both the Macs and the cheaper PC laptops have SSDs (solid state drives) and neither of them have HDDs (Hard Disk Drives)
The Mac has a PCIe drive and the majority of cheap PCs have SATA drives, but more expensive laptops now use the same PCIe-NVMe
PICe has a higher bandwidth and is all around a better protocol.

It is not correct to say that NO PCs have the more modern PCIe-NVMe
For example: The surface Pro has the PCIe-NVMe, the HP Envy also, There are a bunch of Asus and Acer laptops with the same PCIe-NVMe I can't remember them all. there's a bunch.

So you were incorrect in your terminology, and your assertation. Unless it was "Cheaper PC laptops still use SATAIII rather than PCIe-NVMe"

HDDs = spinning platter disks, which no decent laptop computer has now
SSD = the solid state drive most laptops have, both Mac and PC
SATA and SATAIII = the older bus on cheaper and more workplace oriented laptops
PCIe over NVMe = the newer bus on gaming and media laptops including those from Apple, Microsoft, HP, Asus, Acer and others

Worth pointing out that SATAIII will still provide quite amazing transfer off an SSD 500Mb/s is quite healthy. In 2005 I was working with SCSI limited to 5Mb/s

lapieuvre wrote:

sonik777 wrote:"Pc'S have SSD's which are 6 times slower than Mac HD's."


Uh... no.

Uh... Yes

https://www.computerworld.com/article/3 ... aptop.html

SSD speed is around 500Mb/sec. new MBP 3.1 Gb/s

So, how does this speed applies to Ableton live in terms of use? How do you benefit from this?
I have an SSD on an 2012 mbp running and loading samples smoothly in a project bout 4-8 GB size

ethnotronik wrote:So, how does this speed applies to Ableton live in terms of use? How do you benefit from this?
I have an SSD on an 2012 mbp running and loading samples smoothly in a project bout 4-8 GB size

it doesn't
you don't
it would only benefit you in personal file management - such as when you decide to move your entire library to a new drive or folder.

Hard drive speed is important to run a large amount of audio files. If you only use midi then it's less important.

And yes, loading time will improve with a pcie HD.

Also new culpa when I said mac HD were 6x faster than PC.. I should have said 6x faster than a regular SAta III SSD DRIVE.

I checked on Dell's web site, and I tried to match the specs of a MBP, and I priced it at around 3600$ CAD, WHERE a Mac would be around 4600 to 5000$ Cad

Thanks for the response. I will look into a budget of 2-2.5k for a laptop for live set, multitracking, production and mixing on the go. If dell, as the competitor to apple, offers this at 30% less, I am hoping there will be more competition elsewhere. My desktop computer is at the storage for the past two years, and I am totally laptop dependent for everything audio related.