New Apple machine with 8th Gen i7 (Mac mini) running badly (UPDATE: Possible Fix)

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gunark
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Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2010 11:33 am

Re: New Apple machine with 8th Gen i7 (Mac mini) running badly (UPDATE: Possible Fix)

Post by gunark » Thu Aug 08, 2019 8:17 am

Crazy we have these powerful machines and either having to downgrade our monitors (as I will) or spend out on a £300-500 eGPU combo. But the question is, is the issue the Mac GPUs or Live? After all they advertise them as being great for multi screen 4K video editing. On the other hand my performance in Reaper is also greatly improved...

nathannn
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Location: U.S.

Re: New Apple machine with 8th Gen i7 (Mac mini) running badly (UPDATE: Possible Fix)

Post by nathannn » Thu Aug 08, 2019 9:45 pm

I would try to get a refund from Apple.
The Push / Novation Launch Pad / Novation Launch Pad Pro / Novation Launch Key
/ Launch Control XL / Machine MkII / Machine Studio / BeatStep / Livid OhmRGB / Livid Code V2 / Apc 40 MKII

no computers or synths

20 Copies of Ableton Live Lite.

TLW
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Re: New Apple machine with 8th Gen i7 (Mac mini) running badly (UPDATE: Possible Fix)

Post by TLW » Fri Aug 09, 2019 12:15 am

I guess one question has to be whether the 4K screen issue is unique to Live or happens in other applications/DAWs?

I could barely run Live on my MBP (i7 quad core, Intel graphics) due to glitching and dropouts until I applied the options.txt frame rate reduction. But Logic Pro X runs without any problems at all without me needing to do anything, Mainstage is fine, Audition runs without problems, iMovie has no problems, HD and 4K video display without problems (other than scaling).

The only application I’ve found that needs its frame-rate dropping to work at all is Live 10. Which leads me to wonder why that is (and why Ableton haven’t addressed it).
Live 10.1 Suite, M4L, 2014/15 MacBook Pro 15.3” Retina i7, OS Mojave 10.14.5. RME UFX, assorted synths, guitars and stuff.

hipdeejay
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Re: New Apple machine with 8th Gen i7 (Mac mini) running badly (UPDATE: Possible Fix)

Post by hipdeejay » Fri Aug 09, 2019 2:03 am

TLW wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 12:15 am
I guess one question has to be whether the 4K screen issue is unique to Live or happens in other applications/DAWs?

I could barely run Live on my MBP (i7 quad core, Intel graphics) due to glitching and dropouts until I applied the options.txt frame rate reduction. But Logic Pro X runs without any problems at all without me needing to do anything, Mainstage is fine, Audition runs without problems, iMovie has no problems, HD and 4K video display without problems (other than scaling).

The only application I’ve found that needs its frame-rate dropping to work at all is Live 10. Which leads me to wonder why that is (and why Ableton haven’t addressed it).
You brought up some interesting points I never thought about. But I'm leaning towards it being a Mac issue. These problems don't seem to happen with older Macs. I think it's the current GPU's they're using. I just got an eGPU and all the problems I was experiencing magically disappeared. It could be an Ableton issue too tho

moix
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Re: New Apple machine with 8th Gen i7 (Mac mini) running badly (UPDATE: Possible Fix)

Post by moix » Mon Oct 14, 2019 3:31 pm

I'm considering getting a Mac Mini 2018 exclusively for Ableton Live 10.

Has anyone more info on these issues?

OP when you say "DP" you mean connecting the 4K monitor via TB3 instead of using HDMI?

Honestly, the Intel GPU of the Mac Mini should be plenty for rendering the UI at 4K without having to resort to reducing the fps. Logic and other apps run fine at 60fps on old and underpowered 2014 13'' rMBP of mine with an Intel GPU.

Anyone knows if Live 10 is using Metal on macOS? If not this could explain the shitty graphics performance...

gunark
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Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2010 11:33 am

Re: New Apple machine with 8th Gen i7 (Mac mini) running badly (UPDATE: Possible Fix)

Post by gunark » Mon Oct 14, 2019 3:40 pm

By DP I mean DisplayPort via the USB3 socket to DisplayPort on the monitor. Yes it should be fine but for me it’s not but is fine at 1080p. I know Ableton can be unusually tAxing on the GPU too but I’ve noticed a marked improvement in Reaper too.

As it seemed better running at native 4K resolution (but impossible to use) I put it down to the screen scaling.

moix
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Re: New Apple machine with 8th Gen i7 (Mac mini) running badly (UPDATE: Possible Fix)

Post by moix » Mon Oct 14, 2019 4:04 pm

gunark wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 3:40 pm
By DP I mean DisplayPort via the USB3 socket to DisplayPort on the monitor
So just to clarify, you mean the USB-A port with USB3 or the TB3/USB-C ports?

gunark
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Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2010 11:33 am

Re: New Apple machine with 8th Gen i7 (Mac mini) running badly (UPDATE: Possible Fix)

Post by gunark » Mon Oct 14, 2019 4:06 pm

moix wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 4:04 pm
gunark wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 3:40 pm
By DP I mean DisplayPort via the USB3 socket to DisplayPort on the monitor
So just to clarify, you mean the USB-A port with USB3 or the TB3/USB-C ports?
USB C

moix
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Joined: Mon Oct 14, 2019 3:20 pm

Re: New Apple machine with 8th Gen i7 (Mac mini) running badly (UPDATE: Possible Fix)

Post by moix » Mon Oct 14, 2019 4:16 pm

gunark wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 4:06 pm
USB C
Thanks.

Have you tried using HDMI instead? When using USB-C on my 5K iMac idle CPU temps rise about 10ºC. I suspect because the TB3 controller is consuming CPU resources. I assume that would not happen when using HDMI since that output must come directly from the integrated GPU.

moix
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Joined: Mon Oct 14, 2019 3:20 pm

Re: New Apple machine with 8th Gen i7 (Mac mini) running badly (UPDATE: Possible Fix)

Post by moix » Tue Oct 15, 2019 3:02 pm

Here's a guy having the same problems with Logic and the i7 Mac Mini:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvTFRhte4Ng

His audio problems are solved by reducing resolution to 1080p. So yeah it seems like the bottleneck is the intel GPU.

armas
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Re: New Apple machine with 8th Gen i7 (Mac mini) running badly (UPDATE: Possible Fix)

Post by armas » Fri Oct 18, 2019 5:33 am

Hi everyone,

so happy to found this thread. I was going nuts with my new mac mini 2018 and it's crackling and popping audio and high cpu load. I was thinking my RME UFX II was faulty or there was something else weird going on.

I have 3.2GHz 6-core Core i7 with 32gb of RAM. I have also older MPB 2014 which I used to test same projects. In a nutshell I have found that using gpu heavy programs and plugins (such ableton itself and vst's from fabfilter) causes high cpu and makes the audio crackle when the buffer is lower such as 64 samples, and I use ultrawide monitor with 3440x1440 resolution. If I raise it to 256 or higher the pops go away but come back if I add more plugins. This is crazy as with those specs I should be able to run quite large amount of plugins with low buffer without any glitches.

I have realised now that the gpu in mac mini is not suitable even for basic programs which is disappointing. one needs to buy egpu and it will apparently solve the issue but this is an extra 500-1000 euros.

I doubt there is anything ableton or plugin creators can do about this other than make their software lighter for gpu's but I doubt it's going to happen in future.

EDIT: I got eGPU (Razer Core X + Sapphire Radeon Vega 56) to test and all the problems went away with it. By all means, it should not be like this that one needs to spend extra dime to get a simple programs to work..
Last edited by armas on Mon Oct 21, 2019 4:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

TLW
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Re: New Apple machine with 8th Gen i7 (Mac mini) running badly (UPDATE: Possible Fix)

Post by TLW » Fri Oct 18, 2019 9:47 pm

If you’ve not already done so, try this - viewtopic.php?f=4&t=230967

For some reason Live seems to really stress the Windowserver on Macs with Intel graphics, which in turn puts a big load on the cpu. Dropping Live’s frame-rate isn’t ideal but it quite often seems to fix things.
Live 10.1 Suite, M4L, 2014/15 MacBook Pro 15.3” Retina i7, OS Mojave 10.14.5. RME UFX, assorted synths, guitars and stuff.

armas
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Feb 15, 2018 6:17 pm

Re: New Apple machine with 8th Gen i7 (Mac mini) running badly (UPDATE: Possible Fix)

Post by armas » Mon Oct 21, 2019 4:52 am

OK thanks for the info. I tried that fps trick mentioned in another topic by setting the -MaxFpsMac=15 string to options.txt but the problem remained.

I got eGPU (Razer Core X + Sapphire Radeon Vega 56) to test and all the problems went away with it. By all means, it should not be like this that one needs to spend extra dime to get a simple programs to work..

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