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 Post subject: No Printed Manual in Live 10 boxed version
PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 7:47 pm 

Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2007 2:29 pm
Posts: 25
Just FYI for some of you older cats like me that prefer a printed manual. I inquired about boxed set and was informed via email that the backup disks will be replaced by a usb stick, and NO PRINTED MANUAL. Just the pdf on the usb stick. Sounds like a pretty empty box to me.....small usb stick and maybe some cool stickers?? Just informing FYI for those of us waiting on boxed sets.Not trying to start a debate about why someone would "need" a printed manual.I work on computers all day long, and prefer to read in print for a change, as well as highlight and make notes on the pages. :(


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 Post subject: Re: No Printed Manual in Live 10 boxed version
PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 10:06 pm 

Joined: Tue Jul 04, 2017 6:33 pm
Posts: 7
Some cool stickers is not enough for me to get the boxed version, even though its the same price as the download version. They couldn't include anything else? A printed manual wouldve been great!

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 Post subject: Re: No Printed Manual in Live 10 boxed version
PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 2:17 am 

Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2007 2:29 pm
Posts: 25
I have seen the boxed version listed for same price as download on some websites, but I have seen boxed version for $50 more on other websites. Also for live 9, just the box without a serial could be bought seperately for $50 dollars......but it included a printed manual.


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 Post subject: Re: No Printed Manual in Live 10 boxed version
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 1:13 am 

Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2016 11:05 pm
Posts: 5
That's a shame. I too would like a printed manual. Great to receive the content on a USB instead of DVD, though.


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 Post subject: Re: No Printed Manual in Live 10 boxed version
PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 12:04 am 

Joined: Thu Sep 26, 2013 3:48 pm
Posts: 4
I, too, am highly disappointed so far. I swear, I'll pay to print the PDF version and staple it together. :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

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 Post subject: Re: No Printed Manual in Live 10 boxed version
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 12:48 am 

Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2018 12:41 am
Posts: 3
I prefer to read a printed manual compared to a pdf. Its a shame if its not will we sold separate as the previous manual are really good.


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 Post subject: Re: No Printed Manual in Live 10 boxed version
PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 10:53 pm 

Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 6:38 am
Posts: 2973
I think the era of printed manuals (especially for computer software) is coming to a close. I welcome the exclusion of manuals, and that is coming from someone that loves reading them.

Firstly, save a tree etc. How it might be "nice" is it really worth it just to waste some paper? And some of us will read that manual inside out, most don't bother to even crack it open.

Secondly, Manuals become outdated the moment they are printed plus it delays the release of a product because manuals cannot be printed until the product is out of development/testing and basically ready for release. Manuals need to be 100% proof read, updated and tweaked right up to release and the size of the Live manual would be even bigger than ever. Then they have to be printed, binded and put in a box. All costs someone has to bear.

Third, Searchability & Up to Date-ness. I personally love reading the manuals of anything and prefer reading paper, but that is because I like to know everything about something. If I need to quickly find how something works, I use the PDF because it has search and is much quicker... in fact I only ever use the paper manual for casual reading, and that goes for almost any product. The next is obviously to update online/PDF manuals for grammar, new features, changes etc it takes a few minutes for the developers and users always get the latest available information.

Lastly, Cost. Having worked within a technical field doing support and working with our media department to develop training material and manuals I can tell you there is significant cost in those manuals. I have made the suggestion on this topic before "why not just print the manual yourself" and the answer is always "do you know how much paper/ink/cost that would be..." yeah no shit. Why deal with all that overhead when over half the users will not even open that manual and instead will go straight online for the answer.

Would you pay $35 for the manual if you could download it free online?

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 Post subject: Re: No Printed Manual in Live 10 boxed version
PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 12:28 pm 

Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2007 2:29 pm
Posts: 25
Yes, Jester. I would pay 35 dollars for the printed manual :D . In a heartbeat. I thought that was the purpose for the boxed set, to charge people extra for disks and manuals.....for those like me who actually plan to read it. Now, if they are going to remove the manual from the boxed set, then the price of the boxed set needs to be reduced. Cant still be selling it for the same 50 dollars after you removed the printed manual....right? USB sticks are inexpensive now.
Yes,I agree, there is overhead for printing manuals, but the Live 9 manuals were NOT being provided to customers for free that I know of. To get a manual you had to pay extra for the boxed set. Maybe boxed sets just havent been selling well, and Ableton get left stuck with too many extra manuals? I dont know. If Ableton gets them printed in bulk though, you can get a decent quality manual for a decent price. It just cost too much to have someone print you just one single manual, lol.


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 Post subject: Re: No Printed Manual in Live 10 boxed version
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:07 am 

Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2010 3:12 am
Posts: 37
Location: Christchurch NZ
+1 Printed Manual - was just in store at Ableton and no v10 printed reference manual, what! - nudge me, when in store.

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