Is Ableton already working on a ARM version for new Macs to come?

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Seta666
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Is Ableton already working on a ARM version for new Macs to come?

Post by Seta666 » Fri Jul 03, 2020 6:48 am

I wonder if Ableton is already working on a ARM version of Live, I was planing to update my system this year or next one but I may hold on that to see what happens with this new platform. Live running both on a Desktop and iPad would be a dream come true..

ecuk
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Re: Is Ableton already working on a ARM version for new Macs to come?

Post by ecuk » Fri Jul 03, 2020 2:51 pm

Seta666 wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 6:48 am
I wonder if Ableton is already working on a ARM version of Live
Probably, yes. It is fair to say that Ableton developers, like developers everywhere, are (at least) talking about the coming ARM-based Macs.

However, to get the Developer Transition Kit with an ARM A12Z processor, Apple is giving priority to developers with apps in the Mac App Store. Live is not available from the Mac App Store. Besides, Apple only started sending out the first of these development machines last week, so it is likely that Ableton does not even have the hardware at this point.

Also, Live uses a lot of third-party libraries. Ableton has no real control over porting these to ARM. Think of it as a supply chain, and Ableton is the last link in that chain. They need to wait for these other parties to make things work, just like you need to wait for Ableton.

Seta666 wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 6:48 am
Live running both on a Desktop and iPad would be a dream come true..
macOS and iPadOS (and iOS) are different operating systems. To believe that to have an ARM processor means that macOS apps will suddenly run on iPadOS is like believing that because current Macs and (many) current Windows machines both use Intel processors, software will somehow magically run on both. It does not, at least not without virtualisation such as VMware or Parallels; and I truly do not see Apple releasing a macOS-virtualisation for the iPad anytime soon.

Granted, iOS apps have long run on iPadOS, and both iOS and iPadOS apps will run natively on the new ARM-based Macs. But it does not go the other direction. iPad apps do not run on an iPhone (unless designed to do so), and macOS apps will not run on an iPad

In essence, iOS ≤ iPadOS ≤ macOS.

My advice: if you can wait, wait. If you cannot, get an Intel-based Mac now while you still can. Other than that, my crystal ball is kinda foggy. But don't expect magic either way. And besides, with either machine you'll be able to make music for many years to come…
MacBook Pro, macOS Big Sur 11.2.1, 2.3GHz i7-1068NG7, 32GB – Live Suite 11.0, Max 8.1.10, Push 2, Zoom H6, ATH-M50x

Tone Deft
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Re: Is Ableton already working on a ARM version for new Macs to come?

Post by Tone Deft » Fri Jul 03, 2020 8:51 pm

I certainly hope not. not everyone uses Macs. :roll:

does this mean two separate Live releases for Apple products instead of just one? that's where my argument lies.
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ecuk
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Re: Is Ableton already working on a ARM version for new Macs to come?

Post by ecuk » Sat Jul 04, 2020 12:28 am

Tone Deft wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 8:51 pm
does this mean two separate Live releases for Apple products instead of just one? that's where my argument lies.
No, just one: universal binary.

For macOS, that is. We can only hope that Ableton does not decide to do something daft and spend resources to develop some kind of dumbed down Live for iPadOS. I for one am very much hoping they do not. Ugh, it doesn’t bear thinking about. I have developed audio apps for iPad, and the limitations of doing so are legendary. Besides, Max (and hence Max for Live) would never get past the App Store gatekeepers.
MacBook Pro, macOS Big Sur 11.2.1, 2.3GHz i7-1068NG7, 32GB – Live Suite 11.0, Max 8.1.10, Push 2, Zoom H6, ATH-M50x

Seta666
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Re: Is Ableton already working on a ARM version for new Macs to come?

Post by Seta666 » Sat Jul 04, 2020 7:36 am

I have no idea about software development but if in 3 years time ARM Apple computers will be the only ones you are able to buy; and I do not see Ableton, Cycling74 or any major software developer abandoning that. May be the full software transition will take more than that, the 7 years or so Apple is supposed to support Intel Macs.

If they share processor architecture with iPads and iphones I thinks it will be pretty easy for developers to adapt them to some extent for those devices.

Maybe they will have to limit the number of tracks/plug ins available depending on the hardware used but the code would be pretty much the same...same processors/same libraries

In fact this is good for Microsoft too, once developers start making ARM based professional software they may also do it for Windows 10 ARM. Same way there are apps for Intel Macs and Windows 10 PC's

ecuk
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Re: Is Ableton already working on a ARM version for new Macs to come?

Post by ecuk » Sat Jul 04, 2020 1:57 pm

Seta666 wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 7:36 am
I have no idea about software development…
I do have some idea about software development. I have been developing digital audio software for nearly 40 years — since 1982 in fact, on *nix, Windows, macOS and occasionally my own real-time operating systems for embedded devices (plus a few other lesser-known operating systems for computers long since lost in the mists of time).

Trust me, porting software to a new platform is rarely — really never — as ‘pretty easy’ as users want to believe.

EDIT: I forgot iOS in my list of operating systems above. Been there, done that too.
MacBook Pro, macOS Big Sur 11.2.1, 2.3GHz i7-1068NG7, 32GB – Live Suite 11.0, Max 8.1.10, Push 2, Zoom H6, ATH-M50x

dpknight
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Re: Is Ableton already working on a ARM version for new Macs to come?

Post by dpknight » Tue Nov 10, 2020 8:15 pm

regarding a number of the plugins ... presumably Logic Pro will go arm compatible straight out of the gate, because Apple owns it. That will put pressure on the mainstream plugin makers to update to arm compatibility, so by the time there is an arm compatible Ableton, I guess there will be a library of plugins. Though no doubt not the very one you most want... They released the arm-macbook-air this morning - if it really is 3-5 times faster, and no fan, and 18 hour battery life, what an Ableton companion! I'd never get out of bed!

Tuur
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Re: Is Ableton already working on a ARM version for new Macs to come?

Post by Tuur » Tue Nov 10, 2020 8:50 pm

dpknight wrote:
Tue Nov 10, 2020 8:15 pm
...presumably Logic Pro will go arm compatible straight out of the gate...
They've already announced that last summer.

Tuur
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Re: Is Ableton already working on a ARM version for new Macs to come?

Post by Tuur » Thu Nov 12, 2020 7:29 am

Apple Silicon M1 Chip in MacBook Air Outperforms High-End 16-Inch MacBook Pro.

https://www.macrumors.com/2020/11/11/m1 ... benchmark/
The M1 chip, which belongs to a ‌MacBook Air‌ with 8GB RAM, features a single-core score of 1687 and a multi-core score of 7433. According to the benchmark, the M1 has a 3.2GHz base frequency.
In comparison to Macs, the single-core performance is better than any other available Mac, and the multi-core performance beats out all of the 2019 16-inch MacBook Pro models, including the 10th-generation high-end 2.4GHz Intel Core i9 model. That high-end 16-inch MacBook Pro earned a single-core score of 1096 and a multi-core score of 6870.

DevilFish81
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Re: Is Ableton already working on a ARM version for new Macs to come?

Post by DevilFish81 » Wed Nov 18, 2020 7:17 pm

Is there a release date of Ableton Live 11, with native Apple Silicon M1 Support :?: :?: :?:

jestermgee
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Re: Is Ableton already working on a ARM version for new Macs to come?

Post by jestermgee » Wed Nov 18, 2020 9:18 pm

DevilFish81 wrote:
Wed Nov 18, 2020 7:17 pm
Is there a release date of Ableton Live 11
Yes: early 2021
DevilFish81 wrote:
Wed Nov 18, 2020 7:17 pm
with native Apple Silicon M1 Support :?: :?: :?:
No :!: :!: :!:

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