Can't add automation lane to group - Odd Fix.

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Fizmarble
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Can't add automation lane to group - Odd Fix.

Post by Fizmarble » Fri Dec 24, 2010 5:47 am

I am using a set that has a mix of midi and audio tracks. I went to try and add an automation lane to the group to fade the volume of all tracks at once. "Add Automation Lane" was grayed out. After some fiddling, I found that if I went to session view and moved the group volume slider, and then pressed delete to return to 0, I now had the ability to add an automation lane.
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Amaury
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Re: Can't add automation lane to group - Odd Fix.

Post by Amaury » Tue Dec 28, 2010 9:25 am

Hello,

Can you somehow reproduce the conditions to get the entry grayed out? Or was that a "one time only"? I tried and couldn't get the context menu entry to be grayed out..

Kind regards,
Amaury
Ableton Product Team

Fizmarble
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Re: Can't add automation lane to group - Odd Fix.

Post by Fizmarble » Tue Dec 28, 2010 5:03 pm

Easy. Start a Set with just a blank midi track and a blank audio track. Shift Select both tracks, ctrl-G to group them. Right click Group, "Add Automation Lane" is grayed out. Tab back to session view, move group volume slider or pan. Tab back to arrangement view. Magically, you can now add an automation lane.
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hoffman2k
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Re: Can't add automation lane to group - Odd Fix.

Post by hoffman2k » Tue Dec 28, 2010 6:04 pm

Fizmarble wrote:Easy. Start a Set with just a blank midi track and a blank audio track. Shift Select both tracks, ctrl-G to group them. Right click Group, "Add Automation Lane" is grayed out. Tab back to session view, move group volume slider or pan. Tab back to arrangement view. Magically, you can now add an automation lane.
Edited.

Confirmed. The Fades/Device Chooser of a Group Track is hidden until you reveal the automation lane manually.

Amaury
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Re: Can't add automation lane to group - Odd Fix.

Post by Amaury » Wed Dec 29, 2010 1:00 pm

Hello,

The "Add automation lane" is dependent on which automation is visible in the track. So, after selecting two tracks in the Arrangement, and grouping them, there is no automation in the Group track visible, therefore the "Add automation lane" entry is grayed out.

It is the same for an audio track that has the automation chooser set to "none".

There is indeed a usability problem, that Hoffman2k points out: for a group track, you can't see the automation choosers nor the automation envelopes until you vertically resize the track. That's a separate story, which we may address in the future, which probably increased your confusion.

Kind regards,
Amaury
Ableton Product Team

Fizmarble
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Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 4:25 pm

Re: Can't add automation lane to group - Odd Fix.

Post by Fizmarble » Wed Dec 29, 2010 4:47 pm

Amaury wrote:Hello,

The "Add automation lane" is dependent on which automation is visible in the track. So, after selecting two tracks in the Arrangement, and grouping them, there is no automation in the Group track visible, therefore the "Add automation lane" entry is grayed out.

It is the same for an audio track that has the automation chooser set to "none".

There is indeed a usability problem, that Hoffman2k points out: for a group track, you can't see the automation choosers nor the automation envelopes until you vertically resize the track. That's a separate story, which we may address in the future, which probably increased your confusion.

Kind regards,
Amaury
This seems like a bug to me, since you have to manually resize the group in order for a context menu option to become usable. Does the manual specify that automation lanes can't be added unless you manually resize a track in the arrangement view? It's good to know that I can resize the group to "fix" the issue, but that still leaves the question; should I have to? Adding an automation lane should resize the track, not vise-versa.
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Amaury
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Re: Can't add automation lane to group - Odd Fix.

Post by Amaury » Wed Dec 29, 2010 5:08 pm

Hello,

There is a problem for sure, but the problem is not that you can't add an automation lane for a non existing envelope. Try it with an audio track:

- Create an Audio track in the Arranger
- Right click on it
-> "Add automation lane" is grayed out.

The reason being that there is no automation selected. For audio tracks, you have the choice to "touch" a parameter, so that it appears as an automation, or expand the track to select a parameter manually in the automation chooser.

For a group track, the later is a little less easy because it's not by means of unfolding, but resizing the track you get to the automation chooser. "Touching" a parameter works as well as for Audio tracks though.

To summarize: no envelope selected = no "Add automation lane"

The "resize instead of unfold" for Group tracks is under our radar. Probably not on the top of the list though.

Kind regards,
Amaury
Ableton Product Team

Fizmarble
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Re: Can't add automation lane to group - Odd Fix.

Post by Fizmarble » Wed Dec 29, 2010 5:24 pm

Ok. I get it. Thanks for checking it out.
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