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 Post subject: Re: 64 bit Native Support - Ableton Unable To?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 3:51 pm 

Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2004 5:53 pm
Posts: 441
Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands
Wrong forum...

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 Post subject: Re: 64 bit Native Support - Ableton Unable To?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 2:52 pm 

Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2010 5:12 pm
Posts: 22
Sadly so far every cue points to conclude that Ableton IS unable to... The strange thing is that in this field when firms can't do the 64bit shift inhouse, then hire an external specialized firm to do so.
Why this hasn't happened?

Newsflash!! Just days ago Ableton extended their own developers hiring process:
http://www.ableton.com/referral-reward
A process that has been up online many months already... But tech firms do not hire online so its no strange that it has been a failure.
This looks bad, really bad. It is common knowledge in tech circles that converting 32bit software to native 64bit is a rather complex task, thus just a few specialized and experienced techs are able to do it. Furthermore, switching from one core to multicore/multithread optimization is several levels more difficult for developers to accomplish, and LIVE urgently needed this years ago.

With this info, I would predict that at best, if Ableton releases Live 9 soon, it will certainly not be optimized for multicore CPUs (maybe give a 2nd thought on selling your single core 4Ghz Pentium if you still stick around) and at best Live 9 will allow for 64bit sort of faked (rushed) functioning at many stages, in other words some processes will be 64 bit native and others not but wont crush it (hopefully).

Trying to look to the bright side, if ANY level of 64 bit compatibility gets finally released, just by allowing to increase the RAM over the actual 3+ Gb limit, would suffice to run Live much better than it is now.

Also one could guess that if Ableton finally attracts and hire some idealist C++ developer, that eventually gets lucky and hits the right spots (possibly if thousand of us cross fingers, send positive energy, Give Ableton a Dance, or some other magical way) then... on the medium or long run, Live could really be able to use the fantastic CPUs, fast RAM and potent hardware already released since 2010... Yes, -as most of us know- incredible hardware exist, no need to dream with the hardware + controllers that could be available when LIVE actually gets able to -efficiently- work on today's gear.


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 Post subject: Re: 64 bit Native Support - Ableton Unable To?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 2:09 am 

Joined: Fri Mar 20, 2009 5:09 pm
Posts: 46
djcl.ear wrote:
Trying to look to the bright side, if ANY level of 64 bit compatibility gets finally released, just by allowing to increase the RAM over the actual 3+ Gb limit, would suffice to run Live much better than it is now.

I completely agree. I have been waiting years to take advantage of more than 3-4 Gb RAM. I don't even care if it's "true" 64-bit, just compile the thing into a 64-bit binary and let us use more RAM. That's the biggest problem right now.

I wonder if the issue has been that every single device in Live Suite (which adds up to a lot!) needs to be meticulously migrated to 64-bit. Maybe that's why it's taking so long. Perhaps they should look into providing a 64-bit host that can run their 32-bit devices while taking advantage of more RAM. I know there are problems with that approach, but Apple managed to do it with Logic and it mostly worked ok (in my fairly limited experience... so take this comment with a grain of salt).

I know it's bad to promise things in advance when you can't deliver, but this situation seems to be dragging on a little too long. It would be nice if they made an announcement about *something* soon (like Live 9 with 64-bit support coming sometime in 2012, early 2013, whatever). We'd just like to know that they're "on it" with the 64-bit support.

But I guess it's dumb to keep asking and bitching. I mean, they must provide 64-bit support eventually or the product will ultimately fail and fade into obsoleteness. One day soon no 32-bit computers will be sold, and baseline computers will start coming with 8+ Gb RAM standard. I'm sure Ableton wants to stay in business, so they're going to do it. We just have to be patient... but damn, sometimes it's hard for those of us with newer computers where Live is the primary bottleneck.

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 Post subject: Re: 64 bit Native Support - Ableton Unable To?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 10:47 pm 

Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2009 5:26 pm
Posts: 100
I caved and upgraded to Logic 9. Unfuckingbelievable being finally able to use all 10Gb of RAM in a DAW that doesn't crash all the frelling time. 8O
I see Ableton's "we're not going to post in our own forums anymore as a way of inculcating our userbase with a sense of loyalty" is working out really well for them.
:roll:

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 Post subject: Re: 64 bit Native Support - Ableton Unable To?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 4:22 pm 

Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2011 12:46 pm
Posts: 5
Just purchased cubase 64-bit ,pity I really like and am used to ableton live, oh well now to learn more of cubase.


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 Post subject: Re: 64 bit Native Support - Ableton Unable To?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 5:59 pm 

Joined: Wed May 17, 2006 1:18 am
Posts: 566
The tone of this thread is weird. No they haven't released it, but chances are they are working on it. It probably involves substantial changes all over Live's code base and they are obviously doing everything that they can to avoid buggy releases. I can't really envision how M4L factors in, but it is probably something to consider.


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 Post subject: Re: 64 bit Native Support - Ableton Unable To?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 8:12 pm 

Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2011 3:51 pm
Posts: 106
Surreal wrote:
It probably involves substantial changes all over Live's code base and they are obviously doing everything that they can to avoid buggy releases. I can't really envision how M4L factors in, but it is probably something to consider.

All very likely. Converting a simple desktop program to 64-bit is not a huge job, but converting anything that manipulates audio is almost guaranteed to be a hell of a job. Especially if some not so great assumptions were made back in the day of less advanced processors, which they now have to work around for the mathematics to work out :)

I'm sure Ableton are able to produce a 64-bit program eventually. They produced an advanced DAW already, and that's not something you do over a weekend with next to no programming skills.


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 Post subject: Re: 64 bit Native Support - Ableton Unable To?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 12:36 am 

Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2009 6:20 am
Posts: 18
I personally dont care what the reason is for why they havent gone 64-bit.. The market will dictate if ableton makes it or not.. I can garuantee that if they dont come up with a 64bit DAW soon, they will go the way of sonar. AND EVEN SONAR IS 64BIT!


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 Post subject: Re: 64 bit Native Support - Ableton Unable To?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 9:12 am 

Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2011 7:57 am
Posts: 29
Location: Prague
Dankk wrote:
I personally dont care what the reason is for why they havent gone 64-bit.. The market will dictate if ableton makes it or not.. I can garuantee that if they dont come up with a 64bit DAW soon, they will go the way of sonar. AND EVEN SONAR IS 64BIT!


I absolutely agree!
Everyone is asking for some silly new features ignoring the fact that the biggest limitation and downside of Ableton is not absence of some kind of delay or colored button or any other hardcore sound effect but the real limitation is that its 32 bit ONLY...
Damn its 2012 and most of the users are using the Ableton on osx which is 64bit. Ableton is not one of the ram-cheapest softwares and the fact that it is not able tu utilize more ram and crashes is a bit bad marketing...
Don't tell me that team of programmers is not able to rewrite it for 64bit (as far as I remember, one bigger patch released by Apple was enough for enabling logic to run in 64bit)
Let me check what new will be introduced in 8.2.8.........hmmmmmm........ "Several minor changes for the Ableton Improvement Program"
What? Are you joking that you are spending time and money ond such minor and pointless improvements you introduced in 8.2.X (except Lion support...) instead of one major step forward? Why?
Few years ago when the ableton was released and the breakthrough versions 6 and 7 were out it was a complete game changer when talking about audio software so please don't kill him with your bad project management...

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 Post subject: Re: 64 bit Native Support - Ableton Unable To?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 10:00 am 

Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2010 1:58 pm
Posts: 60
ffs ! moaners 8P

seems that problem is not 64bit v.s. 32bit.

I bet 64bit Native Support will not solve Your frontier issue.
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 Post subject: Re: 64 bit Native Support - Ableton Unable To?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 8:22 am 

Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2011 7:57 am
Posts: 29
Location: Prague
maaz-eke wrote:
ffs ! moaners 8P

seems that problem is not 64bit v.s. 32bit.

I bet 64bit Native Support will not solve Your frontier issue.
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I bet it will... in fact 32bit program can use only a limited amount of the memory and if the memory is exceeded it crashes....
I am not moaning that my computer crashes - I am trying to say that the Ableton sometimes crash because its process out of memory because it simply cannot address more...
or do you have any other explanation? - come on - I'd like to hear some of your's technical facts....

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 Post subject: Re: 64 bit Native Support - Ableton Unable To?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 10:20 am 

Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2010 1:58 pm
Posts: 60
maara wrote:
I am not moaning that my computer crashes - I am trying to say that the Ableton sometimes crash because its process out of memory because it simply cannot address more...
or do you have any other explanation? - come on - I'd like to hear some of your's technical facts....


Ableton Live is versatile as nothing else.
I never noticed that Ableton crash because its process out of memory. In previous project for stage performance did used session with 5GB audio in it + realtime processing + controller mappings over real-MIDI and virtual-pipe. Most important audio clips where addressed to load in memory by clips-RAM-switch-ON. My laptop have 2GB memory and it never crashed with that (...so?).
___BTW. In part of that session I had possible-audio-drop-outs (when running simultaneous 9-stereo-tracks{these all where about 5min long audio}) caused by not fast enough HardDrive-read. But fortunately Ableton-Live is projected so that it didn't drop timing in case of not getting audio and continued playing midi tracks with out losing a beat then when grabbed audio added it back correctly. So that if mates didn't panic and didn't drop playing in-time drop-out was bearable. And it worked fine that way.
___And I never had that drop-out issue since changed HDD to SSD still running on 2GB RAM.

I wouldn't say that Ableton-Live never crashes... I do know how to crash it with some plugin or can make it on-surface freeze as making it (under surface) work in flames with incorrect script...

Still. What I'm saying is Ableton Live is good enough to HARD work even with only having 32bit version and 64bit is just for peace of mind.
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 Post subject: Re: 64 bit Native Support - Ableton Unable To?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 10:06 am 

Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2011 3:51 pm
Posts: 106
I just need to run a Kontakt instance with 2-3 8DIO products to crash with an out of memory error. So even the 4GB addressable by 32-bit Live aren't always enough ;)


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 Post subject: Re: 64 bit Native Support - Ableton Unable To?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 4:20 pm 

Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2009 2:46 pm
Posts: 120
Location: Miami, FL USA
maara wrote:
Dankk wrote:
Let me check what new will be introduced in 8.2.8.........hmmmmmm........ "Several minor changes for the Ableton Improvement Program"
What? Are you joking that you are spending time and money ond such minor and pointless improvements you introduced in 8.2.X (except Lion support...) instead of one major step forward? Why?
Few years ago when the ableton was released and the breakthrough versions 6 and 7 were out it was a complete game changer when talking about audio software so please don't kill him with your bad project management...


Dude... I'm beyond disappointed!! I just upgraded to 8.2.7 from 8.2.3 which was working for the most part okay in Lion. Now 8.2.7 completely screwed up my APC40 and my Track Pad inside Live... neither of them work thanks to 8.2.7 upgrade! What a useless upgrade! WTF?

Like you say: "Are you joking that you are spending time and money ond such minor and pointless improvements you introduced in 8.2.X (except Lion support...) instead of one major step forward? Why? "

This is mind-blowing to me..


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 Post subject: Re: 64 bit Native Support - Ableton Unable To?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 7:16 pm 

Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2009 5:26 pm
Posts: 100
maaz-eke wrote:
Still. What I'm saying is Ableton Live is good enough to HARD work even with only having 32bit version and 64bit is just for peace of mind.


:roll: Hear that everyone - *his* system is fine with 32bit therefore everyone else with problems must be doin' it wrong.

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