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Opening an L8 created file = different plugins settings...

Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 6:11 pm
by Valiumdupeuple
Here with the Compressor, racked: (look at the threshold and release values)
Opening the set in L8.2.2

Same set opened in L9 (b69 , I didn't upgrade so I can't test with the released version)

Re: Opening an L8 created file = different plugins settings...

Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 7:01 pm
by michael.j.mclaughlin20
ok, so I think the reason why this is happening is because Ableton has made some changes to their compressor in regards to the range in which the knobs and values can be set to. However, this range is still (computationally) from 0.000000 to 1.000000 or if the effect racks run off of a a 0-127 range then that will be the range. These two concepts are important as I try to explain this.
So basically if you have a certain number of milliseconds on your compressor's release, (say of 20ms which corresponds to a computational value of something like 0.30000 or in midi's case somewhere around 45) and you have that mapped to an effect rack that has a range of 0-127 (though the racks can get more precise than this), then the Ableton set is going to remember that 0-127 value and not the one that is set by the compressor. In the new version, Ableton programmed the compressor to reach an extended or different range, the set will retain it's computational range of 0.30000, but a different time value will be applied to it since the compressor is using a different range.
This is just like extending or shortening the range when using midi mapping and assigning 0-127 values to it)
I'm not sure which ranges have been extended or switched to logrhythmic or vice versa from linear, but I'm sure the manual will be able to help you out with most of this stuff.
This does not happen when you do not have an effect rack. In fact, the opposite happens, where the knobs on the compressor will actually turn to match their original values in Live 8.
Unfortunately, I don't think there's any way to get around this, you've just got to live with it or take your single string effects out of your effect racks, which is extremely easy to do... since you're only using serial and not parallel processing.

Re: Opening an L8 created file = different plugins settings...

Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 8:30 pm
by Valiumdupeuple
I didn't think about it, just thought it might be related to the fact my compressor is racked, and I think you're absolutely right.
So, yes, there's no way to get around this. (I rack my devices -when it's not for parallel processing- in order to get the parameters names displayed on my Maschine controller).

Re: Opening an L8 created file = different plugins settings...

Posted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 7:42 pm
by db

your guess is correct, the change is due to the Macro mapping. Here is what happens:

The ranges for Release and Threshold didn't change compared to Live 8 - the Release Min = 1ms and Max = 3s. However as part of the Compressor overhaul, we changed the curve for the Release and Threshold parameter so that there is a better distribution of "useful" values over the entire parameter length. Many users seem to have set Release by proximity, thinking that setting it to 50% provides a "medium" release time.

You can see this by:

1) Setting the Release knob to "12 o'clock" in Live 8 Compressor sets 54ms, in Live 9 460ms
2) Setting the Threshold slider half way in Live 8 Compressor sets -30dB, in Live 9 -15dB

This change shouldn't affect Compressors without Macro mappings, even automations should play back the same in Live 8 and Live 9.

Macro mappings to these 2 parameters can turn out different though, and this is not something we can revert easily.

Hope this helps.