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Re: so many glitches in ableton 9

Posted: Sat Jun 22, 2013 6:25 pm
by violetpow1
Yes, the same glitch problem in Snow Leopard and Lion. Before Live 9 i had no problems to run in Live 8.3 64 or 128 samples buffer with the Fireface 800. Also on projects with higher trackcounts (32 tracks and more)
Now in Live 9 it works also at the first view, but for instance i have a project only with 16 recorded audiotracks and no plugins, but 4 external audio effects. In the arrangeview i get in the middle of the track randomly clicks.
On this "clickpionts" are no clipstarts or ends. If i switch the buffer to 512 it is not better.
I use external audio effects intensely since Live 8 and i hadn't this problem before.(when this is the problem)

Re: so many glitches in ableton 9

Posted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 7:26 am
by djcl.ear
Evengy wrote:
djcl.ear wrote:If you are utilizing Windows 8 you might have the problem right there.
I haven't implemented W8 myself but at a discussion about Audio Benchmarks, an user stated this:
"if you check the DPC latency you will find that in W8 the latency is ALWAYS at 1000 us, which is highest value that you can achieved if you want a pleasant experience with your sound system, this is something that Microsoft implement on purpose in the kernel of windows 8 to reduce the power draw from the CPU especially in tablets. its not represent a problem for the common user, and the only way to reduce the DPC value is to stress the CPU to the max and the values will drop drastically to the order of 2 or 10 us" ... rfc/289798
Hope it might help

Windows 8 Compatibility: The DPC latency utility runs on Windows 8 but does not show correct values. The output suggests that the Windows 8 kernel performs badly and introduces a constant latency of one millisecond, which is not the case in practice. DPCs in the Windows 8 kernel behave identical to Windows 7. The utility produces incorrect results because the implementation of kernel timers has changed in Windows 8, which causes a side effect with the measuring algorithm used by the utility. Thesycon is working on a new version of the DPC latency utility and will make it available on this site as soon as it is finished.

After posting most of these arguments at Gearslutz W8 thread, cause some users are also experiencing Audio glitches with DAWs on W8.
A user pointed to a workaround that apparently solves the problem>
Originally Posted by guitarguy93
I I did, however, find a tip about putting you Ableton Live files on an external drive. This worked wonders.

Which precisely seems like another indication that something might be wrong in Windows 8 Kernel timers and its IRQs management or at least as high level as those.
If the glitches are gone -ceteris paribus- just by moving the program files to a distant storage device... where latency should have increased and thus glitches were expected to increase, but instead were eliminated, and this just by moving the program to a differently timed lane!...
It all appears to reinforce the faulty Kernel design.

I wonder what was happening at different samplings, particularly at 96 kHz (or higher) when Ableton files were located at C: and then measured at the other drive, did glitches increase?

Re: so many glitches in ableton 9

Posted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 2:35 am
by Lumix
after installing Virtual Studio 2012 Ultimate on windows 7 SP1 and deinstalling - im getting random crashes with ableton 904_32.
installed VS2012 again - ableton runs a bit more stable again and now new ableton install and i hope these are gone. any ideas? what that had caused the crashes?
is was getting the "ADefaultWinSystemExceptionHandler::HandleStageOne" error and then a simple Runtime error and then random closing of Ableton. it was really crashfest - even working without 3rd Party VSTs wasnt getting me any further after some time gui freeze and then gui closed and crash. :? :(
really strange. well im getting a new HDD, new CPU and mainboard in a few days - so ill install Windows new and then i hope everything is gone. :mrgreen:

Re: so many glitches in ableton 9

Posted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 7:44 am
by Blendton
I love Windows 8 and think about 15 years ago when computer science was... for "scientists" who love to solve problems with machines built with the "nice, useless but nice now people like this are called geeks I eared) ...

Being handicapped with only kb+mouse as controllers for a moment, I'm about to get FINALLY a Launchkey 61 (not awesome gear indeed but keys recall me the feeling of some Yamaha DX7 derivative) ... and iPad + Lemur.

I do sequencing while I'm without controllers so I can't have an objective point of view about Live 9 & Windows 8 but at least I can say for sure that for the CPU part, it's better than Windows 7 + Live 8 or 9, totally identical between Live 8 and Live 9 under Win8.
I did the test from a topic somewhere and 22% with my laptop is stable after less than 2sec in Suite 8 32-bit and Suite & 64-bit, a little bonus for Live 8 is that I had to add heavy VSTs like Kontakt 5 with Sasha SoundLab + all Xfer Records doing something ...

BTW I understand the point here, Windows 8 may be more complicated for the audio part than I thought, I will tell you how playing some Brahms score with Suite 9 64-bit and Win8, Kontakt synths and multis can be stressfull for everything from the CPU to the pianist, lol.

Retired from the professional audio muultiverse, my opinion and good experience for now is totally subjective.

Interesting topic, I thought because of the title it would be troll-sounding, but WTF I love being wrong and Anandtech are very reliable, thank you for giving interesting posts which learn me something and give me an urge to explore (yes, I'm bored being happy with both Suite 9 and Win8, I feel like being alone) :D

Re: so many glitches in ableton 9

Posted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 8:29 pm
by Blendton
OMG I thought about a potential "clue" ...

I don't have issues but while Suite 8 and 9 are installed in C:\ProgramData, EVERY material is on a separate D:\ volume which is a primary one, and hosting my swapfile.sys too (a trick to earn traces of better computing from my past lol).

So maybe "extentions" volume and/or the swap and/or the place for material is not linked with the "external" tip, but more hidden in what makes Windows 8 give the fixed 1000ms stuff and what prevent it to do so ... ?

Sorry if it's stupid, I'll have tried :roll: