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 Post subject: It would be nice If PUSH's LEDS would be flicker free
PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 5:16 pm 

Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:01 pm
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Location: Earth ~ Europe ~ Germany ~ Cuxheaven
It would be nice If PUSH's LEDS would be flicker free,
they are really at the edge of annoyance here.

Reminds me the old CRT Screen Days :?
~AnSolas


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 Post subject: Re: It would be nice If PUSH's LEDS would be flicker free
PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 11:25 pm 

Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 6:38 am
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With or without the plug pack connected (or both)?

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 Post subject: Re: It would be nice If PUSH's LEDS would be flicker free
PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 11:29 pm 

Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2012 1:02 pm
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I've only ever seen it in videos (where the refresh rates make it way more noticeable) or when I blink rapidly. Otherwise it's not so apparent.

Maybe stop blinking while using Push.


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 Post subject: Re: It would be nice If PUSH's LEDS would be flicker free
PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 8:02 am 

Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:01 pm
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Location: Earth ~ Europe ~ Germany ~ Cuxheaven
panten wrote:
I've only ever seen it in videos (where the refresh rates make it way more noticeable) or when I blink rapidly. Otherwise it's not so apparent.

Maybe stop blinking while using Push.


I see it most of the time while moving my head or when I move my hands over PUSH


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 Post subject: Re: It would be nice If PUSH's LEDS would be flicker free
PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 8:02 am 

Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:01 pm
Posts: 380
Location: Earth ~ Europe ~ Germany ~ Cuxheaven
jestermgee wrote:
With or without the plug pack connected (or both)?

both


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 Post subject: Re: It would be nice If PUSH's LEDS would be flicker free
PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 11:26 pm 

Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2011 1:25 pm
Posts: 171
I've never had that issue with the Push. Maybe try a different color scheme for your pads? IDK.

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 Post subject: Re: It would be nice If PUSH's LEDS would be flicker free
PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 9:27 am 

Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:01 pm
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Logic8807 wrote:
I've never had that issue with the Push. Maybe try a different color scheme for your pads? IDK.

Maybe it has something todo that I weak glasses.
Its not to to serious tho, I am really happy with PUSH


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 Post subject: Re: It would be nice If PUSH's LEDS would be flicker free
PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 11:51 pm 

Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2003 3:51 am
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If you are talking about the Alphanumeric display (not the push pads), I sent a video and bug report to Ableton support about the display flickering and rolling.

They acknowledge the problem and stated that it was caused by the display being too bright. They said they would put a fix for it in a future version of Push firmware. I'm not sure whether they've done this in the 9.1 beta or not.

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 Post subject: Re: It would be nice If PUSH's LEDS would be flicker free
PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2013 11:00 am 

Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2011 1:26 pm
Posts: 440
koranek wrote:
I'm not sure whether they've done this in the 9.1 beta or not.


They've done it, but now for some people the display isn't bright enough (it's fine for me).

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 Post subject: Re: It would be nice If PUSH's LEDS would be flicker free
PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 12:36 am 

Joined: Thu Jul 02, 2009 11:54 pm
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Location: San Diego, CA
ansolas wrote:
panten wrote:
I've only ever seen it in videos (where the refresh rates make it way more noticeable) or when I blink rapidly. Otherwise it's not so apparent.

Maybe stop blinking while using Push.


I see it most of the time while moving my head or when I move my hands over PUSH


That just leftover tracers from eating so much acid in the past 8O

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 Post subject: Re: It would be nice If PUSH's LEDS would be flicker free
PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 10:05 am 

Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:01 pm
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Location: Earth ~ Europe ~ Germany ~ Cuxheaven
Airyck wrote:
ansolas wrote:
panten wrote:
I've only ever seen it in videos (where the refresh rates make it way more noticeable) or when I blink rapidly. Otherwise it's not so apparent.

Maybe stop blinking while using Push.


I see it most of the time while moving my head or when I move my hands over PUSH


Just good eyes

Essentially its the same effect as you noticed years ago when watching at a Tube TV @ 50Hz

Noticed that Push flickers on any video you see? guess why

Spread your fingers , watch indirect on Push and move the the hand could be some way to make it visible.

If you get used to it its OK, as it was with 50Hz TV, tho


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 Post subject: Re: It would be nice If PUSH's LEDS would be flicker free
PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 3:22 pm 

Joined: Thu Jul 02, 2009 11:54 pm
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Location: San Diego, CA
I'm just guessing but I'm pretty sure that the controller uses PWM to control the brightness of the LED. So at a 50% on / 50% off cycle the LED is the dimmest it will go. Then a longer on time vs off time to make it brighter. So the flickering is part of the way that the LED's are controlled. It's pretty common and most of the time doesn't bother people's eyes because they flicker fast enough that your eyes don't notice.

I don't see any way that they could improve this without changing the actual hardware. It may be possible for them to increase the PWM frequency but once again I'm making guesses at the design.

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 Post subject: Re: It would be nice If PUSH's LEDS would be flicker free
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:03 pm 

Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:44 pm
Posts: 3
At least CRT's had phosphorous which kept a steady glow, whereas LED's are harsher with PWM. I've also heard that although they eyes don't show a response above something like 60hz, that brain monitoring has shown the visual cortex senses much higher frequencies that pass through the eyes.

As far as solutions... I'd love to try turning PWM off, even if it affects colors/brightness, but it seems possible to increase the rate of the PWM on Push's pads from 100hz to the max of 116hz using SYSEX.

See the detailed Push spec here and search for "PWM":
https://github.com/Ableton/push-interfa ... ce.asc#PWM Frequency

If someone here knows hex(?), could you post the sysex command for changing the PWM to 116?

Good luck.


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