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 Post subject: Still ridiculous 8 bar limit?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2015 5:55 pm 

Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2014 4:08 pm
Posts: 8
I work with a lot of song material, and a lot of it is in 16 bars.

The 8 bar limit on Push crippled my music-making, so I haven't really used it much.

Has this limitation been removed now? Can Push handle 16 bars?


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 Post subject: Re: Still ridiculous 8 bar limit?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2015 6:24 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 03, 2009 3:02 am
Posts: 5298
Location: Menasha, Wisconsin
How do you mean 'limit'? In which mode?


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 Post subject: Re: Still ridiculous 8 bar limit?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2015 6:33 pm 

Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2011 2:51 am
Posts: 126
musictechguy wrote:
I work with a lot of song material, and a lot of it is in 16 bars.

The 8 bar limit on Push crippled my music-making, so I haven't really used it much.

Has this limitation been removed now? Can Push handle 16 bars?


You can set any clip length you want by pressing the Clip button and using the Loop Length encoder.

I actually don't recall there ever being an 8 bar limit, but I don't have an old version of Live nor my old Push 1 to verify. In any case, yes, Push 2 can handle 16 bar clips (or 32, or 37-1/2, or whatever you want :-) )

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 Post subject: Re: Still ridiculous 8 bar limit?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2015 10:58 pm 

Joined: Sat Aug 29, 2009 11:59 am
Posts: 16
I think he might mean the limit on the number of bars that can be selected in the bottom-right of the drum sequencer, the loop length setting.

ie step 4 at http://www.musicradar.com/tuition/tech/how-to-sequence-drums-with-ableton-push-579468

But that limit is, and has always been, 16 bars AFAIK, even on my Push 1, so I could be wrong.


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 Post subject: Re: Still ridiculous 8 bar limit?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2015 11:54 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 03, 2009 3:02 am
Posts: 5298
Location: Menasha, Wisconsin
I do admit, it'd be nice for step sequencing if you could scroll.


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 Post subject: Re: Still ridiculous 8 bar limit?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 12:18 am 

Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2011 2:51 am
Posts: 126
yur2die4 wrote:
I do admit, it'd be nice for step sequencing if you could scroll.


Well, you can. If you've set a clip (loop) length for something longer than 16 bars, you can use the page buttons to access the bars beyond 16. That said, it's pretty easy to lose track of where you are in the clip, so it's not ideal.

Or, it's possible I'm misunderstanding what you mean. :-)

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 Post subject: Re: Still ridiculous 8 bar limit?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 4:43 am 

Joined: Sat Aug 29, 2009 11:59 am
Posts: 16
ObtuseMoose wrote:
yur2die4 wrote:
I do admit, it'd be nice for step sequencing if you could scroll.


Well, you can. If you've set a clip (loop) length for something longer than 16 bars, you can use the page buttons to access the bars beyond 16. That said, it's pretty easy to lose track of where you are in the clip, so it's not ideal.

Or, it's possible I'm misunderstanding what you mean. :-)

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Is that only on the Push 2 or on the Push 1 as well?


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 Post subject: Re: Still ridiculous 8 bar limit?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 9:36 pm 

Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2004 4:23 pm
Posts: 6488
Location: Seattle, WA.
ObtuseMoose wrote:
yur2die4 wrote:
I do admit, it'd be nice for step sequencing if you could scroll.


Well, you can. If you've set a clip (loop) length for something longer than 16 bars, you can use the page buttons to access the bars beyond 16. That said, it's pretty easy to lose track of where you are in the clip, so it's not ideal.

Or, it's possible I'm misunderstanding what you mean. :-)

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Moose


To solve this problem I'll set the steps to something bigger like a 4th or 8th rather than 16ths. Then select which part of the loop I want to edit and go back to 16ths. This helps me navigate multiple pages of steps and stay organized.

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 Post subject: Re: Still ridiculous 8 bar limit?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2015 2:47 am 

Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2011 2:51 am
Posts: 126
blof_eld wrote:
Is that only on the Push 2 or on the Push 1 as well?


Couldn't say if it works for Push 1 as I no longer have my Push 1. I assume you can set the length of the clip the same way (press the Clip button and use the loop length encoder). I'm much less sure that you could access more than 16 bars since Push 1 doesn't have the dedicated left and right page buttons. Perhaps holding shift and the left or right arrow buttons might work.

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 Post subject: Re: Still ridiculous 8 bar limit?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2015 6:16 am 

Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2014 4:08 pm
Posts: 8
ObtuseMoose wrote:
blof_eld wrote:
Is that only on the Push 2 or on the Push 1 as well?


Couldn't say if it works for Push 1 as I no longer have my Push 1. I assume you can set the length of the clip the same way (press the Clip button and use the loop length encoder). I'm much less sure that you could access more than 16 bars since Push 1 doesn't have the dedicated left and right page buttons. Perhaps holding shift and the left or right arrow buttons might work.

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Moose


Push 2 seems to be very buggy. I was disappointed with the performance of Push 1, which I still have, the loop length being the chief gripe. It seems that Push 2 has been rushed out in a very short space of time, with little regard for Push 1 owners. And if this is the way Ableton treats customers, then I can't say I'm that impressed.

Push 2 seems to be half developed, given the number of serious bugs, and I won't be paying out a penny more to upgrade. Those people who have paid out are quite foolish, in my opinion.

Given the situation with Push and the fact that the update to Live 9.5 has trashed some of my work in progress, resulting in about 50 files not being found, I won't be recommending Ableton Live or Push to any of my students or at any Music Technology conferences which I attend. I was going to recommend that we adopt it for some of our courses, but I can't, in conscience, recommend that any more. For a start, out technical support staff will be working overtime wrestling with all the bugs.


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 Post subject: Re: Still ridiculous 8 bar limit?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2015 7:12 am 

Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2005 11:46 pm
Posts: 15515
Location: Ableton Forum Administrator
Hopefully we can meet up some time at a music technology conference, perhaps I can help you sort out some of the issues you seem to be having. At the very least you sound like someone who could use a beer and a friendly chat :)

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InnerPortalStudio.com - electronic music mastering.


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 Post subject: Re: Still ridiculous 8 bar limit?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2015 10:13 pm 

Joined: Thu Dec 09, 2004 6:13 pm
Posts: 7066
Location: right here
musictechguy wrote:
ObtuseMoose wrote:
blof_eld wrote:
Is that only on the Push 2 or on the Push 1 as well?


Couldn't say if it works for Push 1 as I no longer have my Push 1. I assume you can set the length of the clip the same way (press the Clip button and use the loop length encoder). I'm much less sure that you could access more than 16 bars since Push 1 doesn't have the dedicated left and right page buttons. Perhaps holding shift and the left or right arrow buttons might work.

--
Moose


Push 2 seems to be very buggy. I was disappointed with the performance of Push 1, which I still have, the loop length being the chief gripe. It seems that Push 2 has been rushed out in a very short space of time, with little regard for Push 1 owners. And if this is the way Ableton treats customers, then I can't say I'm that impressed.

Push 2 seems to be half developed, given the number of serious bugs, and I won't be paying out a penny more to upgrade. Those people who have paid out are quite foolish, in my opinion.

Given the situation with Push and the fact that the update to Live 9.5 has trashed some of my work in progress, resulting in about 50 files not being found, I won't be recommending Ableton Live or Push to any of my students or at any Music Technology conferences which I attend. I was going to recommend that we adopt it for some of our courses, but I can't, in conscience, recommend that any more. For a start, out technical support staff will be working overtime wrestling with all the bugs.


I'm sure your students would prefer Maschine anyway, you made the right decision see ya.

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 Post subject: Re: Still ridiculous 8 bar limit?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2015 1:06 am 

Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2004 2:22 pm
Posts: 13633
I'm pretty good at reading between the lines. He's obviously downplaying it but I suspect this guy may be a navy seal with over 3000 confirmed kills.

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 Post subject: Re: Still ridiculous 8 bar limit?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2015 7:12 am 

Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 6:38 am
Posts: 1610
musictechguy wrote:
Push 2 seems to be very buggy. I was disappointed with the performance of Push 1, which I still have, the loop length being the chief gripe. It seems that Push 2 has been rushed out in a very short space of time, with little regard for Push 1 owners. And if this is the way Ableton treats customers, then I can't say I'm that impressed.

Push 2 seems to be half developed, given the number of serious bugs, and I won't be paying out a penny more to upgrade. Those people who have paid out are quite foolish, in my opinion.

Given the situation with Push and the fact that the update to Live 9.5 has trashed some of my work in progress, resulting in about 50 files not being found, I won't be recommending Ableton Live or Push to any of my students or at any Music Technology conferences which I attend. I was going to recommend that we adopt it for some of our courses, but I can't, in conscience, recommend that any more. For a start, out technical support staff will be working overtime wrestling with all the bugs.


Really not sure where half your info comes from

Quote:
Given the situation with Push and the fact that the update to Live 9.5 has trashed some of my work in progress, resulting in about 50 files not being found, I won't be recommending Ableton Live or Push to any of my students or at any Music Technology conferences which I attend.


Live cannot delete files without the user telling it to do so (except temp files). Surely if you teach students on the use of Digital Audio Workstations one of the first things you would teach is something you would hopefully practice and that is the act of ensuring you have a working and reliable backup system. Just access your backups to retrieve your lost files. I hope you teach better than you ask. Collect ALL & Save probably could have saved you there, just a tip.

Quote:
Push 2 seems to be half developed, given the number of serious bugs, and I won't be paying out a penny more to upgrade. Those people who have paid out are quite foolish, in my opinion.


Now you are poking things with sticks. You are entitled to your opinion of all users who buy Push 2 to be fools as i'm entitled to assume you simply don't have the knowledge or capabilities to manage software like Live and controllers like Push. I could be wrong but based on the way you come across that is my opinion.

It almost appears you are just looking for ANY reason not to like Push 2 (maybe because you are salty that you just got Push 1 and you have been told you are not allowed any more pocket money this year. Why not state all the "serious bugs" you know of that have had confirmations of. Your first post a year ago was a moan about how Live is missing features because you couldn't globally transpose everything in one go. Since you only come here to moan, if you have been using Live and have not been back here since to bitch about it I would say that is a pretty good run really wouldn't you?

Quote:
It seems that Push 2 has been rushed out in a very short space of time, with little regard for Push 1 owners. And if this is the way Ableton treats customers, then I can't say I'm that impressed.


This has me sus about your rant full stop. So:
- Updating features for Push to bring it into the realm of the 9.5 update
- Offering the new features and updates free to Push 1 owners
- Offering Push 1 customers a 30% discount and trade in to upgrade (with free shipping)
- Offering music schools free Push units and free Ableton licenses to help underprivileged kids
- Announcing and assuring Push 1 customers they will be supported well into the future

How much "regard" does one need to give? How SHOULD Ableton be treating customers? I'd say most users here would disagree with you here and if you were to actually contact support with some of your concerns you would probably get a reply within a day (not 2-5 days like NI, not a week like Akai and not 3 months like bloody Cakewalk). You have also not even really bothered to answer peoples follow up questions either so not even sure what you're trying to achieve here.

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 Post subject: Re: Still ridiculous 8 bar limit?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2015 8:13 am 

Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2015 7:53 am
Posts: 31
Location: Perth, Australia
I can't speak to Push 2's capabilities as I'm still using Push 1 (happily).

However I can comment about Ableton's approach to software development. The rate at which they pump out betas and add new functionality is impressive. It's at least as good as the rate at which the company I work for pumps them out and our customers pay 18% of the rrp (which is in the 10s or sometimes 100s of thousands of dollars) annually for the privilege.

Very happy customer here.

Edit: My only gripe is that they don't offer new versions as patches. Having to download the full 900MB every time they release a new beta seems a bit backward. We offer substantially smaller patches that users can download to upgrade to the latest version of the software we sell.

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