Ableton Push: Questions & Answers

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skatr2
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Re: Ableton Push: Questions & Answers

Post by skatr2 » Mon Feb 25, 2013 2:28 am

glitchrock-buddha wrote:I haven't seen any indication that the drum rack sequencer in Push is responsive to the velocity that you hit the pads with. I know there's an accent button and you can edit velocities after entry with the knob but seeing as the pads are velocity sensitive, wouldn't it make sense to allow the sequencer step pads to velocities based on how hard you hit the key?
Judging by what I have seen, when you select the drum on the bottom, the velocity that you select that drum is what you will get when you add to the sequence.

yur2die4
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Re: Ableton Push: Questions & Answers

Post by yur2die4 » Mon Feb 25, 2013 2:35 am

I think the common application for drum sequencers is making beat patterns without having to rely on physically playing it out. So usually there are options for velocities to put in. Just like the notes are usually modified not by playing them, but by placing them in the right spot, even of that spot isn't playing 'now'.

But after you mentioned it, it Does sound like it'd be a good feature to have on something! (Maybe Push!)

julienb
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Re: Ableton Push: Questions & Answers

Post by julienb » Mon Feb 25, 2013 11:05 am

already ok: what the push sends in User Mode.
more incoming...

=>> http://julienbayle.net/ableton-push/#usermode

check the page, I also played with sysex...

here are my experiments this morning (sorry it is a short text but I'm totally saturated)
- MIDI notes + CC can light up/down LEDS (my map is coming)
- MIDI notes + CC are sent from he PUSH in user mode (the map on the previous link)
- SYSEX are send by the PUSH when configuration in Live change but I still cannot intercept Sysex sent by Live (= Python)

Image

Quantize
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Re: Ableton Push: Questions & Answers

Post by Quantize » Mon Feb 25, 2013 5:32 pm

skatr2 wrote:
glitchrock-buddha wrote:I haven't seen any indication that the drum rack sequencer in Push is responsive to the velocity that you hit the pads with. I know there's an accent button and you can edit velocities after entry with the knob but seeing as the pads are velocity sensitive, wouldn't it make sense to allow the sequencer step pads to velocities based on how hard you hit the key?
Judging by what I have seen, when you select the drum on the bottom, the velocity that you select that drum is what you will get when you add to the sequence.
The step sequencer pads transmit velocity 100 unless accent is pressed in which case they transmit 127. These values are fixed at present, although it should be noted that you can hold down more than one step at once and adjust the velocity.

julienb
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Re: Ableton Push: Questions & Answers

Post by julienb » Mon Feb 25, 2013 6:07 pm

Quantize wrote:
skatr2 wrote:
glitchrock-buddha wrote:I haven't seen any indication that the drum rack sequencer in Push is responsive to the velocity that you hit the pads with. I know there's an accent button and you can edit velocities after entry with the knob but seeing as the pads are velocity sensitive, wouldn't it make sense to allow the sequencer step pads to velocities based on how hard you hit the key?
Judging by what I have seen, when you select the drum on the bottom, the velocity that you select that drum is what you will get when you add to the sequence.
The step sequencer pads transmit velocity 100 unless accent is pressed in which case they transmit 127. These values are fixed at present, although it should be noted that you can hold down more than one step at once and adjust the velocity.
right, by clicking on a note, you can change 3 parameters using top encoders.
- nudge (move the note-on a bit before or after)
- note length
- velocity

glitchrock-buddha
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Re: Ableton Push: Questions & Answers

Post by glitchrock-buddha » Mon Feb 25, 2013 11:34 pm

Quantize wrote:
skatr2 wrote:
glitchrock-buddha wrote:I haven't seen any indication that the drum rack sequencer in Push is responsive to the velocity that you hit the pads with. I know there's an accent button and you can edit velocities after entry with the knob but seeing as the pads are velocity sensitive, wouldn't it make sense to allow the sequencer step pads to velocities based on how hard you hit the key?
Judging by what I have seen, when you select the drum on the bottom, the velocity that you select that drum is what you will get when you add to the sequence.
The step sequencer pads transmit velocity 100 unless accent is pressed in which case they transmit 127. These values are fixed at present, although it should be noted that you can hold down more than one step at once and adjust the velocity.
That's all well and good that you can adjust multiple velocities at once (really nice actually). However I do still think there's a bit of a missed opportunity here with pads that respond to velocity. The top four rows are effectively being used as toggles. While I think this is fine and in many cases would be preferred so you don't have to think about how hard you're hitting each step, I also think that it would make a lot of sense for each step input to input the velocity with which it was hit (keeping the ability to modify velocity after input of course). The pads velocity sensitivity aren't being taken advantage of while step sequencing. Why not use this unique function. There aren't many velocity sensitive step toggles out there used for note input.
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lo.key
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Re: Ableton Push: Questions & Answers

Post by lo.key » Tue Feb 26, 2013 2:40 am

thats the real benefit of the push, with user mode this sort of thing (variations on step sequencer functioning, for example) will be easy to develop yourself!


(and remember you can always play the pads live, and have that velocity entered into the step sequencer).
I think you could just fairly easily hold pads as you enter them to tweak on the fly. I prefer the consistency of knowing that if i enter a step, it will play at a consistent velocity.

skatr2
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Re: Ableton Push: Questions & Answers

Post by skatr2 » Tue Feb 26, 2013 2:48 am

Quantize wrote:
skatr2 wrote:
glitchrock-buddha wrote:I haven't seen any indication that the drum rack sequencer in Push is responsive to the velocity that you hit the pads with. I know there's an accent button and you can edit velocities after entry with the knob but seeing as the pads are velocity sensitive, wouldn't it make sense to allow the sequencer step pads to velocities based on how hard you hit the key?
Judging by what I have seen, when you select the drum on the bottom, the velocity that you select that drum is what you will get when you add to the sequence.
The step sequencer pads transmit velocity 100 unless accent is pressed in which case they transmit 127. These values are fixed at present, although it should be noted that you can hold down more than one step at once and adjust the velocity.
Yikes. Ok well thats something that probably should change. As you select the note (at least)...the velocity of selection should translate to the top. Just as if you were recording a beat repeat with aftertouch that increases and decreases in velocity. or just allow the force of the selection in the sequence to be velocity sensitive.

lo.key
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Re: Ableton Push: Questions & Answers

Post by lo.key » Tue Feb 26, 2013 3:01 am

thats bound to produce inconsistencies. The point of the step sequencer is to plot out a predictable sound in advance. What happens if you accidentally hit it too soft? If you want variation, play it by hand. Best of both worlds.

And as i said, its something you can easily change yourself if you like.

skatr2
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Re: Ableton Push: Questions & Answers

Post by skatr2 » Tue Feb 26, 2013 6:14 am

guess I'll wait to play with it to pass judgement. Benefit to the hanz apc script is there is a velocity selection on the bottom pads. I guess if you can dial em in on push as your entering them then its cool (kinda like automation). But if all in the same line are the same velocity, it could be problematic. or if 100 and your accent are the only velocity options.

glitchrock-buddha
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Re: Ableton Push: Questions & Answers

Post by glitchrock-buddha » Tue Feb 26, 2013 6:54 am

lo.key wrote:thats bound to produce inconsistencies. The point of the step sequencer is to plot out a predictable sound in advance. What happens if you accidentally hit it too soft? If you want variation, play it by hand. Best of both worlds.
Haha > "What happens if you accidentally hit it too soft?". Ok, well what happens when you're playing by hand and you hit it too soft? Same answer. You play a soft note. But in the sequencer you can edit it to whatever velocity you want.

I'm not saying they should do away with the standard 100/127 velocities all at the same values, for when you want that old school lazy approach. I like that too. But I think a mode to allow step input by velocity would be very useful. If you want to input a bunch of steps quickly with varying velocity, what would be easier - Input all notes at the same velocity (and a few accents) and then change each notes velocity to something different, or, input all notes at different velocities by simply hitting with varying force. Maybe you'll have a note or two to correct if you're not feeling very dextrous that day. But luckily musicians tend to have some concept of how hard to hit things.

But I definitely think the option would be great, then it truly would be the best of both worlds. Step sequencing that also responds to velocity input.
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julienb
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Re: Ableton Push: Questions & Answers

Post by julienb » Tue Feb 26, 2013 9:21 am

Guys,
I know not everyone is a Python script coder.
But a lot (of us) are.

The step sequencer features sit inside those scripts.
We WILL custom it, change it, create other behaviors too (you can read that)

I mean, don't worry too much about PUSH + scripts as an uncustomizable system.

lo.key
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Re: Ableton Push: Questions & Answers

Post by lo.key » Tue Feb 26, 2013 6:42 pm

^EXACTLY. There is going to be a wide open world of customization potential for this thing, dont get to hung up on how the default behaviour will play out, because there will be a variety of alternatives developed, using midi and m4l in user mode, as well as changes to the python scripts themselves. Midi/user mode based approaches may run into latency issues due to the midi protocol (this is a problem using monome-emulation on a launchpad for some apps), but apps made using the python backend should be much more flexible.

Quantize
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Re: Ableton Push: Questions & Answers

Post by Quantize » Wed Feb 27, 2013 3:27 pm

A quick video of Push in use guys, I hope you like it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7V_lrhZ ... e=youtu.be

I'll post some more detailed videos in the next few days.

Any questions, just shout.

JimConley
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Re: Ableton Push: Questions & Answers

Post by JimConley » Wed Feb 27, 2013 5:42 pm

Has there been any firm date on Push shipping yet? It's less than week to pre-order and it's kind of surprising that Ableton hasn't given a hard date on when it leaves the factory/arrives with retailers. I'm on pre-order at Musicians Friend ($499 price match!) and they're saying a March 25th ship. GC says March 18th. Sweetwater's going with the wonderfully vague yet safe 'early 2013'. Ableton isn't saying when they're shipping until you actually pre-order.

Betting pool, anyone?

ps - great video Quantize. Probably the most comprehensive start from scratch demo I've seen out there.

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