Multiple shades of gray/white

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fishmonkey
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Re: Multiple shades of gray/white

Post by fishmonkey » Wed Jul 17, 2013 10:47 am

you know just enough to be dangerous.

the real question for me is does the Push have the inherent capability to address this in firmware?

essentially what is required is an RGB look-up table for each of the 64 pads. for an 8 bit colour setup that is 64 x 3 x 256 = 49152 bytes of data. that's the minimum memory requirement. it's not a huge amount of memory, however the memory would have to be very fast because you need to be able to access the lookup tables very quickly to not cause unacceptable update latency of the pads.

unfortunately there is a fair chance that the Push doesn't have the processing power to pull that kind of calibration off, whilst also doing all the other fancy stuff. or maybe it does but the firmware needs some fundamental changes to make it work.

it may even be that the pads of the Push have memory locations for each RGB value that are set by the firmware, and an independent non-programmable lower layer that periodically (and very rapidly) reads those values out and converts them immediately to actual voltages for the LEDS. furthermore, it may be that the LEDs aren't even just on/off at specific voltage levels, they may be pulsed with the duty cycles used to control colour and brightness.

in comparison, the Maschine only requires 16 x 3 x 16 = 768 bytes of look-up tables to perfectly calibrate its colours, a much easier task.

Buleriachk
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Re: Multiple shades of gray/white

Post by Buleriachk » Wed Jul 17, 2013 3:32 pm

Well, I'm sure the color problem could have been corrected by the military......
provided one is willing to pay $20,000 for each Push. I understand the pain felt by those that are artistically sensitive, but it seems to me that Push is like a new textbook for a musical course in which you have paid your enrollment fee, but you really don't like the cover.....

(and, of course, you are pissed that someone else might have gotten a better textbook cover than you did.... with some justification, mind you :)

(well, ok, maybe not a textbook, but a work of fantasy anyway....)

drez
Posts: 497
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Re: Multiple shades of gray/white

Post by drez » Wed Jul 17, 2013 3:46 pm

fishmonkey wrote:you know just enough to be dangerous.

the real question for me is does the Push have the inherent capability to address this in firmware?

essentially what is required is an RGB look-up table for each of the 64 pads. for an 8 bit colour setup that is 64 x 3 x 256 = 49152 bytes of data. that's the minimum memory requirement. it's not a huge amount of memory, however the memory would have to be very fast because you need to be able to access the lookup tables very quickly to not cause unacceptable update latency of the pads.

unfortunately there is a fair chance that the Push doesn't have the processing power to pull that kind of calibration off, whilst also doing all the other fancy stuff. or maybe it does but the firmware needs some fundamental changes to make it work.

it may even be that the pads of the Push have memory locations for each RGB value that are set by the firmware, and an independent non-programmable lower layer that periodically (and very rapidly) reads those values out and converts them immediately to actual voltages for the LEDS. furthermore, it may be that the LEDs aren't even just on/off at specific voltage levels, they may be pulsed with the duty cycles used to control colour and brightness.

in comparison, the Maschine only requires 16 x 3 x 16 = 768 bytes of look-up tables to perfectly calibrate its colours, a much easier task.
What about inconsistent doping? If that's the case, I don't think you can software your way out of a problem you've hardware'd yourself into as those LED's, to my knowledge, could not ever be calibrated correctly.
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panten
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Re: Multiple shades of gray/white

Post by panten » Wed Jul 17, 2013 8:53 pm

Out of sheer idle curiosity I did a Google image search for Maschine MKII monochramatic pads, and there aren't a great deal out there, most being the multi-coloured setup.

Of the few I did find there does seem to be a bit of variance in hue, albeit not as bad as Push. It's just not as noticeable I guess because of the high saturation and there being less pads to compare. The one in particular having I presume a lemon yellow base colour with some pads being greenish in tint and others being on the warmer end.

Not trying to stir a hornets nest here, merely trying to gain some perspective on this whole sorry debacle.

It would be nice if David Ableton could provide some technical feedback on what is going on, as it were, under the hood.

Here's a far out thought. Could the Pad material itself have anything to do with the variance? It seems more likely however to be what fishmonkey described.

Buleriachk
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Re: Multiple shades of gray/white

Post by Buleriachk » Wed Jul 17, 2013 9:09 pm

My new Launchpad S has several pads that have a minor tinge of green in the "yellow" neutral mode. Not enough to affect anything, however.

fnordboy
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Re: Multiple shades of gray/white

Post by fnordboy » Thu Jul 18, 2013 5:17 pm

I happened to be reading an Instructable guide about a PixelBrite project and saw this part that may or may not be relevant to Push's issues:

Image

I know next to nothing about LEDs, so this might not relate at all to this issue.

deva
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Re: Multiple shades of gray/white

Post by deva » Thu Jul 18, 2013 7:09 pm

Here is a photo of my Push (color corrected to match the visual appearance as closely as I could)

Image

sixbysix
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Re: Multiple shades of gray/white

Post by sixbysix » Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:40 pm

fnordboy wrote:I happened to be reading an Instructable guide about a PixelBrite project and saw this part that may or may not be relevant to Push's issues:

Image

I know next to nothing about LEDs, so this might not relate at all to this issue.

That's interesting, but I think the problem with the push is not the same, since you can see a very clear dip in brightness to the center in your example whilst the push has quite an even distribution of variance inbrightness.

warp100
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Re: Multiple shades of gray/white

Post by warp100 » Thu Jul 18, 2013 9:57 pm

sixbysix wrote:That's interesting, but I think the problem with the push is not the same, since you can see a very clear dip in brightness to the center in your example whilst the push has quite an even distribution of variance inbrightness.
Actually if you compare deva's to mine (http://imgur.com/h7ZgYZf) they are nearly identical. Which is either a coincidence or supports this theory. Perhaps others do have the same pattern, it's just reversed or rotated?

drez
Posts: 497
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Re: Multiple shades of gray/white

Post by drez » Thu Jul 18, 2013 10:03 pm

warp100 wrote:
sixbysix wrote:That's interesting, but I think the problem with the push is not the same, since you can see a very clear dip in brightness to the center in your example whilst the push has quite an even distribution of variance inbrightness.
Actually if you compare deva's to mine (http://imgur.com/h7ZgYZf) they are nearly identical. Which is either a coincidence or supports this theory. Perhaps others do have the same pattern, it's just reversed or rotated?
My pattern looks nothing like Deva's.
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deva
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Re: Multiple shades of gray/white

Post by deva » Thu Jul 18, 2013 10:17 pm

warp100 wrote:
sixbysix wrote:That's interesting, but I think the problem with the push is not the same, since you can see a very clear dip in brightness to the center in your example whilst the push has quite an even distribution of variance inbrightness.
Actually if you compare deva's to mine (http://imgur.com/h7ZgYZf) they are nearly identical. Which is either a coincidence or supports this theory. Perhaps others do have the same pattern, it's just reversed or rotated?
That is rather odd that they are so close... hmm

deva
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Re: Multiple shades of gray/white

Post by deva » Thu Jul 18, 2013 10:17 pm

drez wrote:
warp100 wrote:
sixbysix wrote:That's interesting, but I think the problem with the push is not the same, since you can see a very clear dip in brightness to the center in your example whilst the push has quite an even distribution of variance inbrightness.
Actually if you compare deva's to mine (http://imgur.com/h7ZgYZf) they are nearly identical. Which is either a coincidence or supports this theory. Perhaps others do have the same pattern, it's just reversed or rotated?
My pattern looks nothing like Deva's.
Do you have an image posted?

drez
Posts: 497
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Re: Multiple shades of gray/white

Post by drez » Thu Jul 18, 2013 10:50 pm

Here's my Push of Many Colors

Image
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MacBook Pro Retina Laptop, 2.7Ghz i7, 16Gig RAM, 500G SSD, Live 9, Push, Novation SL25 Mk2, iPad (TouchOSC, Lemur, Touch-Able), Reason

Tarekith
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Re: Multiple shades of gray/white

Post by Tarekith » Thu Jul 18, 2013 11:06 pm

Wow, these are terrible, if they really looked that bad in person I would send mine back ASAP.

cyclicAMP
Posts: 118
Joined: Thu Mar 07, 2013 1:58 am

Re: Multiple shades of gray/white

Post by cyclicAMP » Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:40 am

Yeah, thats rather amazing how...off it is. Apparently, Akai or Ableton think purple is the new white.

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