How to use Push drum rack mode with Maschine vst

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monohusche
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How to use Push drum rack mode with Maschine vst

Post by monohusche » Tue Apr 09, 2013 1:53 pm

Hi guys,

any idea what the easiest way is to achieve this ? You are supposed to group vst's into instruments racks but that means that one can't use drum mode with drum sequencer plugins such as Maschine. So they need to be grouped into a drum rack for Push to show the correct mode, but that would require to have multiple instances of Maschine which is not an option.

Basically putting one instance of Maschine into cell 1 of a drum rack but routing all pads into that cell ? The Receive chooser for a chain only allows to assign a single note.

One option would be to put forwarder M4L devices into all the other chains which then forward to cell 1, but just checking whether there is any other option as I try minimize the amount of M4L devices in my set.

thx Nick

whatisvalis
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Re: How to use Push drum rack mode with Maschine vst

Post by whatisvalis » Tue Apr 09, 2013 2:26 pm

I was messing around with this exact same issue Sunday. I'm new to Live, and i wish you could easily use Drum racks in the way you describe, but I guess that's not what they are designed for.

I just have an empty drum rack that sends midi to a separate track with an instrument rack and Maschine on it. C1 - D#2 triggers Group A, E2 - G3 triggers Group B etc.

TYLRbass
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Re: How to use Push drum rack mode with Maschine vst

Post by TYLRbass » Tue Apr 09, 2013 2:32 pm

monohusche wrote:You are supposed to group vst's into instruments racks but that means that one can't use drum mode with drum sequencer plugins such as Maschine.
I think you may be able to create an empty drum rack and then send it's MIDI to the Maschine track
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monohusche
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Re: How to use Push drum rack mode with Maschine vst

Post by monohusche » Tue Apr 09, 2013 2:38 pm

No worries, just whipped up two M4L devices, one gets placed into the first slot (where Maschine is also located), the other one goes into all the other cells. The second one forwards all midi events to the first one.

The only thing left to do is to make sure that the play chooser for every chain/cell sends out exactly the same mid event, rather than standard C3 pitch.

save as drum rack and voila, can be instantiated by Push.

works like a charm, can now load 8 groups in Maschine and trigger via a single drumrack.

whatisvalis
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Re: How to use Push drum rack mode with Maschine vst

Post by whatisvalis » Tue Apr 09, 2013 3:32 pm

What's the advantage of doing it contained within a drum rack like that v just sending midi from an empty rack to a Maschine instrument rack? Real time control of maschine macros via Push?

monohusche
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Re: How to use Push drum rack mode with Maschine vst

Post by monohusche » Tue Apr 09, 2013 3:36 pm

whatisvalis wrote:What's the advantage of doing it contained within a drum rack like that v just sending midi from an empty rack to a Maschine instrument rack? Real time control of maschine macros via Push?
probably not such a big difference, you save one track and some complexity when setting up as it is all contained in one device, and doesn't require track routing (that you can't alter via Push).

question on the other hand would be how much resources the M4L devices need.

yur2die4
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Re: How to use Push drum rack mode with Maschine vst

Post by yur2die4 » Tue Apr 09, 2013 4:05 pm

What is imagine to be a fun solution would be

To place one instance of Maschine into a slot, and set that slot to 'receive all notes'.

Then in Maschine, set all the note ranges and stuff for midi batch etc. so that each row of 16 offers another Group.

But this isn't a workflow I'd prefer. I really enjoy Maschine handling itself in one channel, while other things do their stuff in other channels.

Then again, I don't really do a lot of music haha

glitchrock-buddha
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Re: How to use Push drum rack mode with Maschine vst

Post by glitchrock-buddha » Tue Apr 09, 2013 5:15 pm

Can't you just load Maschine to one of the cells and use external instrument devices on the other drum rack cells, sending/receiving from Maschine? People have been doing this since Maschine came out, shouldn't be any different now. Someone even posted a Machine Drum Rack template a while back using external instruyments, I'm sure a search would reveal it.
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whatisvalis
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Re: How to use Push drum rack mode with Maschine vst

Post by whatisvalis » Tue Apr 09, 2013 5:21 pm

glitchrock-buddha wrote:Can't you just load Maschine to one of the cells and use external instrument devices on the other drum rack cells, sending/receiving from Maschine? People have been doing this since Maschine came out, shouldn't be any different now. Someone even posted a Machine Drum Rack template a while back using external instruyments, I'm sure a search would reveal it.

Ah, I'm going to try that, thanks. I could never figure out how to get Maschine to receive all notes on one cell, but as someone just mentioned above there is a 'receive all notes'?

yur2die4
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Re: How to use Push drum rack mode with Maschine vst

Post by yur2die4 » Tue Apr 09, 2013 6:47 pm

Unfold the drum rack Group with Maschine in it (as in, unfold the channel from tje top of the page, not the Device at the bottom).There should only be one channel that pops out.

Then in the in/out part of that channel it will show you what note you can designate as triggering that specific 'sample'. One option is all notes.

whatisvalis
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Re: How to use Push drum rack mode with Maschine vst

Post by whatisvalis » Tue Apr 09, 2013 7:41 pm

yur2die4 wrote:Unfold the drum rack Group with Maschine in it (as in, unfold the channel from tje top of the page, not the Device at the bottom).There should only be one channel that pops out.

Then in the in/out part of that channel it will show you what note you can designate as triggering that specific 'sample'. One option is all notes.
Thanks, I wasted a lot of time trying to find that sort of function via the Chain menu.

coleb
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Re: How to use Push drum rack mode with Maschine vst

Post by coleb » Tue Apr 09, 2013 9:24 pm

i own maschine and push and this is probably a dumb question, but why do you guys like to use maschine in ableton like this? to me, maschine is just a sampler - and a very good one at that. but i haven't come across something that i can do in maschine that i can't do in ableton drum racks. i used to use maschine and the ableton external instrument trick to sequence maschine from live, but it complicated my workflow so much that i just started using the maschine library of samples straight in ableton's drum racks. am i missing something?

humnumb
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Re: How to use Push drum rack mode with Maschine vst

Post by humnumb » Tue Apr 09, 2013 10:16 pm

coleb wrote:i haven't come across something that i can do in maschine that i can't do in ableton drum racks.
Here are some examples of what Live cannot do compared equivalent features in Maschine, especially in the context of Push:

- sample into pads from the hardware
- duplicate drum rack pads from the hardware
- access drum rack's sends and mixer from Push
- browse and load audio samples or pattern clips from the hardware
- slice samples from the hardware
- automapping of plugins (Push requires setup beforehand)
- the ability to be mouseless (and even computer screen-less) for pretty much every control of its software
- preview/pre-hear samples in browser from the hardware before loading them
- show things like waveforms on its display since Push's display is only text-based, not graphical.
- add/remove slices from the hardware
- step sequence regular midi tracks from the hardware without workarounds
- edit start/end points for unwarped audio clips
- make multiple selection of notes from the hardware
- step automation (aka step parameter locks/p-locks)
- open/close plugin GUI from the hardware
- open a project or even start a new project from the hardware
- make custom names to show up in the hardware's displays when used as a midi controller
- Push is less useful as a general MIDI controller since it has no editor, you can't change notes, and you can't have MIDI mapping templates
- and obviously, Push doesn't have the Komplete integration like Maschine where all presets can be browsed and loaded from the hardware.
...etc.

lo.key
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Re: How to use Push drum rack mode with Maschine vst

Post by lo.key » Tue Apr 09, 2013 10:20 pm

i suppose it comnes down to how often you're starting from scratch in a single session. For me, the idea of breaking the creative flow to tweak low-level instrument parameters just sounds like a total workflow killer. I am much more keen to spend time building, tweaking and crafting instruments, then save those instruments to be called on during the creative process. To me, its like going to an orchestra performance, only to watch the conductor start building all the instruments from scratch before any music is made ;p

coleb
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Re: How to use Push drum rack mode with Maschine vst

Post by coleb » Tue Apr 09, 2013 10:34 pm

humnumb wrote: Here are some examples of what Live cannot do compared equivalent features in Maschine, especially in the context of Push:
i agree with all of those examples you make. i was referring to using maschine specifically for a drum rack only. i understand the different limitations in general, but it seemed like the OP was wanting to use push to sequence drums inside maschine. i was just wondering why not just use drum racks to sequence the same samples inside of ableton.

one of the things that really bugs me about push so far is what you mentioned about the lack of usability of it as a general midi controller. i've been working to create a set using max4live patches and midi routing within live to make this doable. i would love to use this to perform live (i usually use maschine for a set) just because it has 4 times the pads that are all RGB lit (i have maschine mkI..). so far i've used the push development kit from flocked to grab some of the pads and have them output CCs or midi notes. and as far as custom names on the display for control parameters, its really nice that push automatically displays the names of live.dials or live.menus, etc within a max4live patch. with these two techniques, i can really emulate exactly what i was doing when using maschine as a generic midi controller for live performance.

the best part is that you can grab only specific controls on the push, so that the other controls maintain their native functionality (i.e. tempo, launching clips in only the uppper 4x4 grid of pads, arrows to navigate through tracks and clips, etc...)

sorry for the thread jacking :D

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