Quneo or Push?

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infinitesinewave
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Quneo or Push?

Post by infinitesinewave » Fri Apr 19, 2013 10:30 pm

I own a Quneo and an APC40... thought about getting Push... but I'm not convinced. Can I do this using Push?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqtJ6GrzTL0

lo.key
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Re: Quneo or Push?

Post by lo.key » Fri Apr 19, 2013 11:09 pm

ive got a quneo and a monome. More pads makes a big difference. Pressure sensitivity makes a big difference. Im getting a push.

panten
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Re: Quneo or Push?

Post by panten » Fri Apr 19, 2013 11:59 pm

infinitesinewave wrote:Can I do this using Push?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqtJ6GrzTL0
Very nice. Not really the kind of music I go for but enjoyed it and watched more than once.

What are you referring to? Light show? Expressive pads? Larger surface for playing across? I think Push covers these albeit in a slightly different way. The pads aren't location sensitive though so you won't be able to get the nuances I think I saw from your performance on the quneo pads.

I also wonder if the Push can be hacked to have the bottom 8x4 grid to control a drum rack and the top 8x4 to control an instrument rack. That would be pretty cool.

Also check out these vids:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXsmsTc2zHw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZaeBJ9IlqY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyPRj7604ew
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wVrM7TJM48

And this thread:
viewtopic.php?f=55&t=192084

SuburbanThug
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Re: Quneo or Push?

Post by SuburbanThug » Sat Apr 20, 2013 12:26 am

Musically the only thing I saw that would require extra hardware was the triggering of the new scene while playing the melody. You would need a foot pedal to sustain a note while you hold session for a moment to trigger the new scene, let go, and get back to playing the melody. Two controllers will almost always beat one in terms of being able to control more things at once. Obviously, I guess.

infinitesinewave
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Re: Quneo or Push?

Post by infinitesinewave » Sat Apr 20, 2013 11:29 am

Well.. the decision has been made for me... Keith McMillen instruments just contacted me and they're going to send me 2 more Quneos for free. I guess they dig what I'm doing :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqtJ6GrzTL0

panten
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Re: Quneo or Push?

Post by panten » Sat Apr 20, 2013 11:41 am

err.. isn't that the same vid from your 1st post?

Anyway, you can't get better than free :D

*edit* Just had thought, maybe you could continue threatening them with your coveting other controllers and you'd become the Jean Michel Jarre poster boy for Quneo :D

infinitesinewave
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Re: Quneo or Push?

Post by infinitesinewave » Sat Apr 20, 2013 12:00 pm

hehe... they're really cool people. I'm gotta come up with something good for them. I'm all out of ideas right now. That last vid was a ton of work! The vid was different... I just uploaded it 2 days ago.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqtJ6GrzTL0

panten
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Re: Quneo or Push?

Post by panten » Sat Apr 20, 2013 2:44 pm

Actually, I have a question for you. How do the quneo pads feel? I did consider getting one at one point but heard reports of a cheap build quality. I'd only read (at the time) that the Push pads were excellent and this was high on my priority list.

infinitesinewave
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Re: Quneo or Push?

Post by infinitesinewave » Sat Apr 20, 2013 5:18 pm

I've been working with it non-stop and exclusively for almost 3 months. The thing feels really solid and organic and it felt that way from day 1. You'll notice that on my vids... I come down HARD on those pads. I also do that when I practice and I practice A LOT. I've been giving it a run for its money without any glitches. The x/y control on each pad is also a big plus w/Quneo if you want the notes you hit to change in character. I don't think you can do that with Push but I'm not sure. Does Push have x/y control for each pad? I was anxiously waiting for Push when I decided to give Quneo a try while I waited. Now I'm hesitating on it. The automatic scale "dial" in is a big plus for me leaning towards Push. With Quneo, you have to know your scales and assign the notes... which is a positive for me because it feels more "custom"... but you've gotta know your music.

Check out the Quneo stress test on youtube... the dude spills beer on it and throws it out a 2 story window... Very entertaining.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-SwEmg3lGU

greaterthanzero
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Re: Quneo or Push?

Post by greaterthanzero » Sat Apr 20, 2013 5:57 pm

infinitesinewave wrote:The x/y control on each pad is also a big plus w/Quneo if you want the notes you hit to change in character. I don't think you can do that with Push but I'm not sure. Does Push have x/y control for each pad?
Not even close.

QuNeo sends a number of CCs w/ each pad, uniquely identifying x y and pressure for that pad specifically. Push does not send any of those, at least in a form that Ableton exposes for our use. (the Live Remote Script makes use of per-pad pressure to set velocities properly in Repeat Mode, but that's the only place it gives users even that much access to that data)

For each pad, it has velocity and a note ID. That's it. Globally, it has aftertouch, but that's for the whole grid, every pad affecting that exact same number.

Push is also much bigger than QuNeo, and it weighs a ton in comparison.

For you, it's a no-brainer. Stick with QuNeo.


I've never been happy with mine -- I'm hoping the "high res" firmware that KMI mentioned back in the Kickstarter days is eventually released, and that I'll be able to tune things more to my liking once I have access to the raw data. But, I love my Push, despite all of its comparative limitations.

Advantages, for me:

* LEDs. Despite the obvious calibration problems, Push has more colors to choose from, and they display better (filling the pads with strong clarity).

* a clear 8x8 grid. ("grid mode" on QuNeo is fine for soft pushes, but trying to play melodic lines on that triggers a lot of wrong notes. your solution of multiple QuNeos in 4x4 mode is probably the right compromise)


...but that brings us to one more advantage on the QuNeo side. Plugging in four QuNeos is a viable option. Push can't do that -- we're limited to one unit per computer.

infinitesinewave
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Re: Quneo or Push?

Post by infinitesinewave » Sat Apr 20, 2013 6:38 pm

I didn't know that you could only use 1 Push per computer. Is Ableton working on changing that soon? I didn't mention it earlier... but from the beginning I wanted to use two. I guess it could be done without any problems by using a mixer and another laptop. Maybe that would be wiser so that your live set is more stable if you wanted to use them live. The worst thing that can happen is a computer error during a live set. Has anyone been there before? Disastrous! Keep that cpu load under 30%.

It seems like Push is more of a "production" tool. I am really excited to build songs on it and its intuitive integration with Ableton but I'm not writing anything new yet. It would replace my Huge keyboard. I'll eventually get it. However, for live performances, I think Quneo is more practical and visually stimulating. Once you have a song, you know the scales, and you know where you're going with it, Quneo is a great way to showcase it.

panten
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Re: Quneo or Push?

Post by panten » Sat Apr 20, 2013 8:44 pm

Just fyi it is also possible to create your own scales for push. I don't recall right now the particular thread detailing how but it's a simple case of inserting some numbers into one of the script files.

greaterthanzero
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Re: Quneo or Push?

Post by greaterthanzero » Sat Apr 20, 2013 9:46 pm

panten wrote:Just fyi it is also possible to create your own scales for push. I don't recall right now the particular thread detailing how but it's a simple case of inserting some numbers into one of the script files.
True.

http://julienbayle.net/ableton-push/#scales

Not 100% thrilled with that solution, because your scripts will get overwritten with software updates in the future. But you can add your custom scales in again later.

I'm rebuilding all that in Max for Live anyway. Which is sort of a huge waste of time, but it'll allow me to add some missing features later (like saving the selected scale with your live set, or using clip automation to trigger scale changes).

panten
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Re: Quneo or Push?

Post by panten » Sat Apr 20, 2013 10:39 pm

True that, but couldn't you just use a free comparison tool to merge your old with the new?

greaterthanzero
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Re: Quneo or Push?

Post by greaterthanzero » Sun Apr 21, 2013 3:12 am

panten wrote:True that, but couldn't you just use a free comparison tool to merge your old with the new?
After the fact, if you've kept a backup and noticed that your scales are gone. (does Live auto-update?)

Meanwhile, I do expect the Max for Live effort to pay off in new features, so it's worth Pushing forward.

(I also plan to port that to other hardware, which coincidentally brings us back on topic in this QuNeo thread. It's unfortunate that Grid Mode is so unreliable for this style of playing...)

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