The Push section of the Live Manual is rubbish!

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Citizen
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The Push section of the Live Manual is rubbish!

Post by Citizen » Sat Apr 27, 2013 2:40 am

Is there anywhere that collects ALL the features and functionality of Push in detail? As far as I could tell, the manual really only covers the basics.

I also watched both the Mac Pro Video tutorials, but by that point I had pretty much worked out all Teh basic functionality by trial and error.

I find it quite ridiculous that we have to have a 'hidden tips and tricks' thread to actually learn the full functionality of this device.
Last edited by Citizen on Sat Apr 27, 2013 3:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

SuburbanThug
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Re: The Push section of the Live Manual is rubbish!

Post by SuburbanThug » Sat Apr 27, 2013 3:01 am

It's a pretty intuitive machine though. Almost little need for a manual.
Last edited by SuburbanThug on Sat Apr 27, 2013 5:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

Asymmetricalmusic
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Re: The Push section of the Live Manual is rubbish!

Post by Asymmetricalmusic » Sat Apr 27, 2013 4:59 am

I cant agree more

Welcome to the dark side!

Dennis DeSantis
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Re: The Push section of the Live Manual is rubbish!

Post by Dennis DeSantis » Thu May 02, 2013 7:03 pm

Hi folks,

We're continuing to revise the manual as we add or change functionality. Currently, the version that comes with the latest beta (and which is available for download) is somewhat more up-to-date than the version that comes with the latest official release version of Live.

http://cdn2-downloads.ableton.com/manua ... ual_en.pdf

Push doesn't hide much - it's designed to do a few things very well, and it does not encompass a very broad range of functions. But what, specifically, would you like to see covered in more detail?

Thanks,

Asymmetricalmusic
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Re: The Push section of the Live Manual is rubbish!

Post by Asymmetricalmusic » Thu May 02, 2013 9:02 pm

Awesome Dennis!

It kinda hard cause I don't know what I don't know, will there be a updated printed manual if I buy a box?

One thing that's really bugging me,

I'd like the arm exclusive thing to be better explained, the pink auto arm thing......

If I turn arm exclusive OFF it doesnt function like the APC40 for example.......

Thanks so much for this communication.....

Dennis DeSantis
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Re: The Push section of the Live Manual is rubbish!

Post by Dennis DeSantis » Thu May 02, 2013 9:19 pm

Asymmetricalmusic wrote:It kinda hard cause I don't know what I don't know
That's a fair point.
Asymmetricalmusic wrote:will there be a updated printed manual if I buy a box?
There will likely not be an update to the printed manual in the near future. I believe we did only one additional run of printed manuals during the Live 8 cycle, and this was quite far into that release. For the foreseeable future, the most up-to-date manual will always be the latest electronic one.
Asymmetricalmusic wrote:I'd like the arm exclusive thing to be better explained, the pink auto arm thing......

If I turn arm exclusive OFF it doesnt function like the APC40 for example.......
Yes, that could use more explanation. I will work on this.

Thanks,

agent314
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Re: The Push section of the Live Manual is rubbish!

Post by agent314 » Thu May 02, 2013 10:01 pm

Additionally, if it would be possible for your team to come up with a nice one-page reference cheat sheet for which buttons have Shift or Select access (i.e. holding Shift to record-arm multiple tracks, etc.), or will change based on holding them (i.e. User controls for changing Velocity/Sensitivity, etc., Session working as a momentary vs. toggle if you push vs. hold, etc.), that would be a great help to myself and I imagine a lot of other users, esp. new ones.

artpunk
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Re: The Push section of the Live Manual is rubbish!

Post by artpunk » Thu May 02, 2013 10:12 pm

Hi Dennis, thanks for your attention to this matter (yes, I know it's your job, but it's nice to get feedback from you!)
There has also been no mention of the expression ports at the back of the unit, at least in the latest manual I looked at (not sure if this has been fixed in the manual you've just linked to)... It would be nice to have information on what kind of foot pedals are compatable, polarity, what they actuallt do... You know, basic information provided instead of users having to trawl the forums for some information?
As for anything else? As Asymmetrical said... It's hard to know what you don't know (I'm going to steal that one for use at work)
The idea of a reference sheet for what all buttons/combinations of buttons do is a good one!
:D

“... it was just to make an average listener go: ‘What the fuck is this?’ That’s a real inspiration for me and something that I will explore more on upcoming recordings.”
- Wally De Backer (Gotye) quoting Ween's intention behind making records

Dennis DeSantis
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Re: The Push section of the Live Manual is rubbish!

Post by Dennis DeSantis » Thu May 02, 2013 10:24 pm

agent314 wrote:Additionally, if it would be possible for your team to come up with a nice one-page reference cheat sheet for which buttons have Shift or Select access (i.e. holding Shift to record-arm multiple tracks, etc.), or will change based on holding them (i.e. User controls for changing Velocity/Sensitivity, etc., Session working as a momentary vs. toggle if you push vs. hold, etc.), that would be a great help to myself and I imagine a lot of other users, esp. new ones.
Discussion of the momentary mode functionality (Session vs. Note, as well as Volume, Pan&Send, Track, Clip and Device) should make it into the next beta manual.

As for a shift/select reference sheet, it's a good idea. I will see how to make this work.

Thanks,

Dennis DeSantis
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Re: The Push section of the Live Manual is rubbish!

Post by Dennis DeSantis » Thu May 02, 2013 10:26 pm

artpunk wrote:There has also been no mention of the expression ports at the back of the unit, at least in the latest manual I looked at (not sure if this has been fixed in the manual you've just linked to)... It would be nice to have information on what kind of foot pedals are compatable, polarity, what they actuallt do... You know, basic information provided instead of users having to trawl the forums for some information?
:D
Yes, this is already written, and should appear in the next beta manual. Here's the text of the passage:

--
Footswitches

Two ports on the back of Push allow you to connect momentary footswitches. Footswitch 1 acts as a sustain pedal. Footswitch 2 is not yet supported, but will be added in a future update.
--

Asymmetricalmusic
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Re: The Push section of the Live Manual is rubbish!

Post by Asymmetricalmusic » Thu May 02, 2013 11:05 pm

I have to admit I didn't buy Push so features could be added in the future....

I know you guys are working hard at developing Push but why not just release Push next year after all is said And done at HQ......

That would have alleviated a lot of problems no? I don't see what the rush is to put this for sale (for $600 no less) when it so far from being done......

That just such bad business, I don't sell someone an ounce of weed give them 7 grams and tell them I'll give the rest in the future......

artpunk
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Re: The Push section of the Live Manual is rubbish!

Post by artpunk » Thu May 02, 2013 11:50 pm

Dennis DeSantis wrote: Yes, this is already written, and should appear in the next beta manual. Here's the text of the passage:

--
Footswitches

Two ports on the back of Push allow you to connect momentary footswitches. Footswitch 1 acts as a sustain pedal. Footswitch 2 is not yet supported, but will be added in a future update.
--
Thaks Dennis, but that is still a bit sparse don't you think? ... for example which port is which (in the absence of any diagram with labels etc), what kind of pedals accepted, polarity?

Cheers!

Asymmetricalmusic wrote:I have to admit I didn't buy Push so features could be added in the future....

I know you guys are working hard at developing Push but why not just release Push next year after all is said And done at HQ......

That would have alleviated a lot of problems no? I don't see what the rush is to put this for sale (for $600 no less) when it so far from being done......

That just such bad business, I don't sell someone an ounce of weed give them 7 grams and tell them I'll give the rest in the future......
Was Push released promising/offering any more than what was actually shown in it's promotional videos, demos and press releases? I don't think so? Therefor you bought Push on the expectation of?
Personally I am glad of any future enhancements or added features! Much better for extra functionality to be added as ongoing development of an already cool product than for development to stagnate, yes?

As for the reference to selling weed... Ha, I used to live with a bunch of pot-heads and knew a few dealers, I wouldn't have been surprised by anything any of them would have tried to pull if they thought they could get away with it. Certainly not a comparison I would have made with Ableton!

8O

“... it was just to make an average listener go: ‘What the fuck is this?’ That’s a real inspiration for me and something that I will explore more on upcoming recordings.”
- Wally De Backer (Gotye) quoting Ween's intention behind making records

Asymmetricalmusic
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Re: The Push section of the Live Manual is rubbish!

Post by Asymmetricalmusic » Fri May 03, 2013 1:54 am

@ArtPunk

It does kinda feel like Abletons acting like your old roommates but your comment about my expectations reminds me of another good point that I think is lacking in the manual is how to customize Push's browser for a stage scenario ...

To me it would be very helpful to be able to customize that browser more.....I'm not a fan of the ridge structure I have to use in the User library to get things to appear in push. I've be putting this area off in hopes that it'll become different and I shouldn't waste my time learning an obsolete method.

Dillinger63
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Re: The Push section of the Live Manual is rubbish!

Post by Dillinger63 » Fri May 03, 2013 2:20 am

Dennis DeSantis wrote:Hi folks,

We're continuing to revise the manual as we add or change functionality.........,
.......as we add or change functionality. :D :D

That alone made my day!

artpunk
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Re: The Push section of the Live Manual is rubbish!

Post by artpunk » Fri May 03, 2013 5:25 am

Asymmetricalmusic wrote:@ArtPunk
It does kinda feel like Abletons acting like your old roommates
...umm, no it doesn't. I think you missed my point there which was that I was wondering what exactly you were expecting when you got your Push? I was asking you if you expected more than what was actually stated and if so why? I also raised the issue that it is a good thing they are adding features & usability. Yes?
Asymmetricalmusic wrote: To me it would be very helpful to be able to customize that browser more.....I'm not a fan of the ridge structure I have to use in the User library to get things to appear in push. I've be putting this area off in hopes that it'll become different and I shouldn't waste my time learning an obsolete method.
You wont get any argument from me, I think everyone would be happy to see improvements in browsing from Push, especially when it comes to user presets. I would hope the learning curve for any changes in working the browser wouldn't be too radical to strain the brain too much!

“... it was just to make an average listener go: ‘What the fuck is this?’ That’s a real inspiration for me and something that I will explore more on upcoming recordings.”
- Wally De Backer (Gotye) quoting Ween's intention behind making records

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