The Push section of the Live Manual is rubbish!

[Asymmetricalmusic]

@ArtPunk

It's more like I assumed things wouldn't be that different from previous versions

My biggest expectation was been able to control Pushs browser, which is not totally the way I understood from the forum or learn push vids hearing things like "you can access lives browser" I assumed that meant In the order of Lives browser via Catagories and places, I never expected (coming from the easy customizable ways of previous version) that now the scruture would be so ridged, for example I organize a lot of things by key which I can have in my User library but won't appear on Push.

I read a lot on this forum that Ableton changed the Live Browser for Push which to me seems at most, half true, considering I don't have things like clips from Catagories, I was truly expecting to drop clip packs on tracks via Push which I know now you cant do at all......

Does that clarify ......

I think I'm most frustrated that I don't like surprises and ableton is keeping me in the dark by not completing a comprehensive user manual, I was expecting to learn how to use Push after everything had been implemented not waiting a month after I bought it to find out its still changing. I would expect to see things like NativeKontrols Bomes custome things but only after Push was Done. Why should I spend more money when it's a fair possibility if I wait, those thing could be free

[Dennis DeSantis]

Thaks Dennis, but that is still a bit sparse don't you think? ... for example which port is which (in the absence of any diagram with labels etc), what kind of pedals accepted, polarity?

The ports are labeled with numbers on Push itself.

As for what types of pedals, any momentary footswitch should work (as opposed to foot pedal, which sends a range of CC values). Polarity can almost always be reversed either by a switch on the unit, or by plugging the footswitch while it's already depressed. I didn't think to include this information because there's nothing unique about these footswitch ports; they're the same as those found on almost all MIDI keyboards.

Best,

[lo.key]

dennis, even a cursory review of this forum over the past month will reveal that there has been a great deal of confusion on pedal polarity. its well worth documenting such things.

[Dennis DeSantis]

there has been a great deal of confusion on pedal polarity.

Thanks, I was not aware of this.

[artpunk]

The ports are labeled with numbers on Push itself.

- my apologies, I hadn't noticed that yet! (Have had limited time with my Push)

As for what types of pedals, any momentary footswitch should work (as opposed to foot pedal, which sends a range of CC values). Polarity can almost always be reversed either by a switch on the unit, or by plugging the footswitch while it's already depressed. I didn't think to include this information because there's nothing unique about these footswitch ports; they're the same as those found on almost all MIDI keyboards.
Best,

Dennis, I would politely suggest that it is best not to assume anything about any given Push user's past experience or knowledge, given that Push & Live 9 might very well be the first midi controller/contoller surface & DAW combination a new owner might have!

[lo.key]

Polarity can almost always be reversed ... by plugging the footswitch while it's already depressed.

Thanks! I was not aware of this!

[SuburbanThug]

Browser issues...

[pencilrocket]

nice picture of your childhood

[Vé]

Seeing as we're talking about pedals here...

I bought two Yamaha FC-5 sustain pedals (switch-type, not continuous pedals) to use with Push.

First things first, turns out the way the pedal is wired inside means that they are 'on' until pressed, which breaks the circuit. This makes them produce a 0 value when pressed and a 127 value when released. Live firmly insists on interpreting 127 as 'pushed' and there is no option to reverse pedal polarity in the software. Using some kind of third-party MIDI translating software was too awkward to get working, so instead I followed the instructions on this YouTube video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LP_UF-Ea-wY) to physically reverse the action of the circuit inside the pedal. After a small amount of experimentation and bending of small bits of metal, success was achieved.

However, what irks me now is that there is no apparent way to MIDI map the pedals. The first pedal works as a sustain which is fine, because that's what I wanted it for. However, the second pedal was intended to trigger recording (or possibly tap tempo) but is currently sitting useless at my feet.

This mapping was originally possible with Live 9 in an earlier version when Ableton Push showed up as its own MIDI port in the MIDI preferences page, where the 'Remote' button could be enabled for it. However, in a recent update this was removed. Now only 'Ableton Push Port 2' shows up, which is for User mode. Having to switch to User mode just to use a pedal sort of defeats the purpose of the pedal, which is to let me switch into recording whilst playing over loops without removing my hands from the keys.

I have a similar situation with aftertouch, which is also seemingly only mappable through User mode when Port 2's Remote button is enabled. I never got to try this before the update, but being able to use aftertouch messages to control any parameter whilst playing the regular keyboard was quite an exciting prospect that is now seemingly impossible. Aside from the few instruments that use aftertouch (and the excellent Note Repeat feature) this seems to make the feature kinda nerfed.

As for browser issues, I managed to reproduce the browser hack featured here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QH8Dn3gDy-I) which, although not perhaps convenient for everyone, has certainly improved matters for me hugely (drum sample sub-folders = bliss). Although again, the fact that a similar system wasn't present out of the box in a more user-friendly format is a bit disappointing.

Still, the parts of Push that are working as they were intended to (or have been made to through various acts of hackery) are fantastic. Hopefully in a few updates time, everyone will experience similar satisfaction.

[artpunk]

Seeing as we're talking about pedals here...

I bought two Yamaha FC-5 sustain pedals (switch-type, not continuous pedals) to use with Push.

First things first, turns out the way the pedal is wired inside means that they are 'on' until pressed, which breaks the circuit. This makes them produce a 0 value when pressed and a 127 value when released. Live firmly insists on interpreting 127 as 'pushed' and there is no option to reverse pedal polarity in the software. Using some kind of third-party MIDI translating software was too awkward to get working, so instead I followed the instructions on this YouTube video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LP_UF-Ea-wY) to physically reverse the action of the circuit inside the pedal. After a small amount of experimentation and bending of small bits of metal, success was achieved.

However, what irks me now is that there is no apparent way to MIDI map the pedals. The first pedal works as a sustain which is fine, because that's what I wanted it for. However, the second pedal was intended to trigger recording (or possibly tap tempo) but is currently sitting useless at my feet.

Interesting. I can't speak for any manufacturer but to me 0 as 'off' and 127 as 'on' seems logical to me...

Polarity can almost always be reversed ... by plugging the footswitch while it's already depressed.

Did you/have you tried the option above to reverse polarity first before you went the hardware hack option?

[Vé]

Did you/have you tried the option above to reverse polarity first before you went the hardware hack option?

First thing I tried. Live seems to, at least in this case, purely respond to the controller value, i.e. 127 is always 'sustain on'.

[artpunk]

Did you/have you tried the option above to reverse polarity first before you went the hardware hack option?

First thing I tried. Live seems to, at least in this case, purely respond to the controller value, i.e. 127 is always 'sustain on'.

Damn. I wonder if Dennis could comment on this? This is why I have been asking for very specific details about the footswitch ports from the outset. A list of tried & tested compatible pedals would be good too!

[fishmonkey]

As for what types of pedals, any momentary footswitch should work (as opposed to foot pedal, which sends a range of CC values). Polarity can almost always be reversed either by a switch on the unit, or by plugging the footswitch while it's already depressed. I didn't think to include this information because there's nothing unique about these footswitch ports; they're the same as those found on almost all MIDI keyboards.

erm, since there is no standard for footswitch operation on MIDI keyboards, there really needs to be specific info about exactly how the ports on the Push behave, especially since many footswitches do not have polarity switches (some also have continuous pedal and switch modes).

does the Push enable polarity setting internally depending on the state of the footswitch on startup (some MIDI keyboards do, some don't) ?

[Dennis DeSantis]

Did you/have you tried the option above to reverse polarity first before you went the hardware hack option?

First thing I tried. Live seems to, at least in this case, purely respond to the controller value, i.e. 127 is always 'sustain on'.

Damn. I wonder if Dennis could comment on this? This is why I have been asking for very specific details about the footswitch ports from the outset. A list of tried & tested compatible pedals would be good too!

I've now tested this with a Yamaha pedal and I can confirm what was written here - it seems that the polarity cannot be inverted in the usual way (by depressing prior to plugging.)

As far as I know, there is no way to do this natively from the software side, although a Max for Live device could do this.

I will try to find out more detail about what pedals we've tested and reply in this thread.

Best,

[artpunk]

...I will try to find out more detail about what pedals we've tested and reply in this thread.

Best,

Thanks Dennis.