Poor PUSH

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Buleriachk
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Re: Poor PUSH

Post by Buleriachk » Fri Jul 12, 2013 5:31 pm

There is good news and bad news..

The good news:
The tools of production are at last in the hands of the workers.
The bad news:
The tools of production are at last in the hands of the workers.

LAnthonyW
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Re: Poor PUSH

Post by LAnthonyW » Sat Aug 10, 2013 6:30 pm

Blendton wrote:I forgot : Maschine doesn't make me excited about perfomance but about its more "producer loving producing" features, I only told you that besides being both (not pro anymore since 2010), if I cannot buy even one of the two, giving me the choice would provoke a Push ordering THEN when wothdrawal stuff being gone, rethink about completing my NI stuff since I enjoy all NI related gear.

:wink:
As the result of a crushed disk in my neck, I have a permanent 25% loss of strength, and worsened dexterity, in my right hand. It greatly affects my keyboard playing. I haven't had it for very long, but as a performance tool, Push is a godsend for me. I have NI's Komplete 9, and I owned a lot of NI's plug-ins before there even was a Komplete. I'm a huge NI fan. I know Maschine is excellent, because it's produced by NI and it's a mature product. Push is the first non-keyboard MIDI controller I've been interested in. That certainly doesn't make Push better than Maschine. Push just fits me better than Maschine would.

Buleriachk
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Re: Poor PUSH

Post by Buleriachk » Sat Aug 10, 2013 7:53 pm

Maschine (+ Komplete) + Launchpad (+L95) + Live 9.5 is the best of all possible worlds. Live covers the audio end of things, Lpad + L95 covers the 8x8 pads/scale thing, and Maschine + Komplete gives a huge library with the ability to tweak conveniently on Maschine (with the ability to see the parameters you're tweaking on its LED's) AND Maschine gives a perfectly useable control surface for Live.

I don't think Push is ready for primetime yet.

I think the next step will be an interface like Launchpad with velocity sensitive pads and a software interface (possibly controlled by the computer keyboard) that will allow easy changing between scales and modes around the Circle of Fifths, relative major and harmonic minor, and then a chord function allowing instant configuration, first of the V -> I progression in both major and harmonic minor, (as well as "InKey"), and then "secondary dominant chords (e.g., D -> G)" as a way of modulating around the Circle of Fifths a little more sophisticated than "brute force".

Even better if such a software interface was DAW independent, so one could use it with either Maschine or Live... It is coming... I can feel it....

Then real musicians can play push. (Don't think that just because one can produce gorgeous sounds in musical contexts that are marginally coherent that one is making great music....)

"And he's not even wrong!" W. Pauli at a particularly boring physics lecture.....
Last edited by Buleriachk on Sat Aug 10, 2013 10:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

deva
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Re: Poor PUSH

Post by deva » Sat Aug 10, 2013 9:52 pm

Real Musicians can play in Chromatic...

Buleriachk
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Re: Poor PUSH

Post by Buleriachk » Sat Aug 10, 2013 9:56 pm

deva wrote:Real Musicians can play in Chromatic...
Yeah, twelve tone music is better than it sounds.....

In the meantime, study harmony - you may need it someday....)

But if you're talking black and white keys, their is no, repeat NO advantage in using Push over a conventional keyboard (as far as music is concerned). And I much prefer Maschine for tweaking dials and sounds....
And my Launchpad(95) S gives me a great 8x8 matrix.... (and I'm sure velocity sensitivity will be coming along shortly - if not from Novation, the from Native-Instruments, which would be a logical next step in the process).

(Well, ok, maybe Ableton will fix the issues in its next update,)

Myself, I'm holding off on Push until I see it is not going to become a white elephant and eventually a doorstop in the evolution of music...

And Maschine is just great for tweaking not only its own sounds but also Ableton's.

thekillingtree
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Re: Poor PUSH

Post by thekillingtree » Sat Aug 10, 2013 10:41 pm

Theo Void wrote:I do not own a PUSH. I was very excited when it was first announced and was set on getting one. Then, (as we all know) availability became a huge issue so rather than waiting what seemed to be a really long time, I pulled the trigger on a Maschine MK2 instead.

Long story short, the Maschine is an amazing, well thought out, well implemented and finished piece of kit. It has changed my work-flow for the better in too many ways to mention. A truly amazing instrument. And, that's all I'll say about it. I know how sensitive everyone gets here when Maschine comes up. This is not a humnumb post.

Anyway, I was still very interested in getting a PUSH. It looks amazing and as always, the marketing has done me in. But after reading through this Push forum it seems that Push is an un-finished, half-assed attempt at a wonderful idea. NO-ONE seems to be satisfied. There's the white LED issue, the shitty browser, the auto-mapped (or lack of) knobs, knob placement, screen issues, and on and on. I've read at least 5 threads of people who are trying to find any reason not to return it.

I realize that people will defend a product that they've purchased to the death just because they've invested $$ and admitting you're wrong is something many humans struggle with. EGO. But honestly, at THIS point in time, is the PUSH worth buying? I don't want to hear that "this or that will be fixed in future firm ware up-dates", or "you just have to make a rack and then you can browse things other than pre-sets", or "hopefully the browser will be fixed".

Reading through the forum it's like people really want to love this instrument and I truly understand. They'll make excuses for it and say things like, "it's really a soft-ware flaw, not PUSH's fault", or "it's just a little work-around, it's not a big deal, really!" It's

Right NOW, are you happy w/ your purchase?

Do you find yourself adopting a new and exciting work-flow based on Push or are you pain-stakingly trying to implement it and just getting frustrated?

Or does your Push sit un-used except for the occasional jam in scales mode that you'll NEVER use in an actual track?

Thanx for your in-put.

i'm replying before i've read the rest of this thread but i can say that even with the LED issue, i've had no other complaints. it has changed my workflow. i think this is a solid machine and it doesn't feel like a toy whereas a few other controllers i've had, did.

i think that you see more negative responses on the forum because people like to complain and the people that love it are too busy making music to sit and complain on a forum all day. i feel like if you're open to modify your existing workflow to incorporate a new device (like PUSH) then you're going to enjoy it. a lot of complaints i've read seem to be people that just want to plug it in and have it automatically know how they want to use it. that's not how it works. you don't buy a guitar and then get mad because it doesn't sound like a piano.

to me, the Push literally makes perfect sense for my workflow and has stepped above and beyond the use / joy i've gotten from other devices, especially keyboards. any problem i have with workflow is me not using it the way it was designed or me not knowing how to actually do what i'm trying to do (reading the manual helps sometimes). if someone is using the Push for an occasional jam in scales mode then they need to stop complaining and just return it. this device is more than that.

i mean, w/e. everyone has an opinion and everyone has tastes and styles. Push feels more like an instrument because there's no real need to even glance up at my monitor.

deva
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Re: Poor PUSH

Post by deva » Sat Aug 10, 2013 11:18 pm

Buleriachk wrote:
deva wrote:Real Musicians can play in Chromatic...
Yeah, twelve tone music is better than it sounds.....

In the meantime, study harmony - you may need it someday....)

But if you're talking black and white keys, their is no, repeat NO advantage in using Push over a conventional keyboard (as far as music is concerned). And I much prefer Maschine for tweaking dials and sounds....
And my Launchpad(95) S gives me a great 8x8 matrix.... (and I'm sure velocity sensitivity will be coming along shortly - if not from Novation, the from Native-Instruments, which would be a logical next step in the process).

(Well, ok, maybe Ableton will fix the issues in its next update,)

Myself, I'm holding off on Push until I see it is not going to become a white elephant and eventually a doorstop in the evolution of music...

And Maschine is just great for tweaking not only its own sounds but also Ableton's.
Hey, if you are happy with your seup, get to it... but since you have repeated this same post around a dozen times, one can only conclude that you still secretly wish you had a push. :mrgreen:

Buleriachk
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Re: Poor PUSH

Post by Buleriachk » Sat Aug 10, 2013 11:25 pm

Not in its present state. I bought one, tried it, and returned it (at a loss of $75 or so)..

I have said many times that if Ableton gets its shit together, I'll be the first on board for the new hardware AND software.... - whoever produces it.) In the meantime I am happy that I upgraded to Live 9 Suite and purchased a Launchpad S and Maschine (after my APC40 lost two volume faders).....

I only repeat the posts because the same people try to keep countering my tough love to Ableton with desperate defenses that don't make musical sense.... (and it may be tough, but it is definitely love....)
deva wrote: Hey, if you are happy with your seup, get to it... but since you have repeated this same post around a dozen times, one can only conclude that you still secretly wish you had a push. :mrgreen:

deva
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Re: Poor PUSH

Post by deva » Sat Aug 10, 2013 11:40 pm

Buleriachk wrote:Not in its present state. I bought one, tried it, and returned it (at a loss of $75 or so)..

I have said many times that if Ableton gets its shit together, I'll be the first on board for the new hardware AND software.... - whoever produces it.) In the meantime I am happy that I upgraded to Live 9 Suite and purchased a Launchpad S and Maschine (after my APC40 lost two volume faders).....

I only repeat the posts because the same people try to keep countering my tough love to Ableton with desperate defenses that don't make musical sense.... (and it may be tough, but it is definitely love....)

Keep telling yourself that... your denial only grows deeper... heh

Shokol8
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Re: Poor PUSH

Post by Shokol8 » Sun Aug 11, 2013 3:46 am

Theo Void wrote:LPC is literally one of the best things that has ever happened to me! I agree, Ableton need this guy on their payroll, like NOW! I'm sure whatever he has done w/ the Push is nothing short of incredible. In-fact, I probably end up buying Push for this reason alone.

All that said^^ I am still going to get one and then I'm going to buy Stray's PXT and I'm going to wait for Ableton to finish what they started.
It's a beautiful piece of kit, I just want it to be as useful as it is beautiful.

I'm just looking for real life users' experience.
:mrgreen:
Shokol8
Paris, Bristol
MBP i5 2.3Gh 8GB 500SSD, 1TB HDD
Sierra Suite 9.7 Edirol FA101
CME VX5, Irig Keys Pro
APC40/Push 1
Ipad Air, Alesis I/O dock, NI S4 & F1
http://soundcloud.com/dr_goldsylver-fastfinger

132nonamemk\
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Re: Poor PUSH

Post by 132nonamemk\ » Sun Aug 11, 2013 5:06 am

the PUSH's feel is far from whimpy
it maintains its cool look
the buttons are extremely organized

and you can't beat Ableton's experience in DAW.

people are used to comparing everything to everything, but in its niche the PUSH is definitely dominant.
think about it...
Ableton's programming has been around for years and years with refinement in every version.
Experience and input from millions of users.

I almost feel like Ableton hid in the woods and spy'd on Native Instruments, Roland, Roger Lynn, Akai, etc.. and learned from all their mistakes. Ableton was the last to announce a release on a DAW midi.

deva
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Re: Poor PUSH

Post by deva » Sun Aug 11, 2013 5:18 am

[quote="132nonamemk\"]the PUSH's feel is far from whimpy
it maintains its cool look
the buttons are extremely organized

and you can't beat Ableton's experience in DAW.

people are used to comparing everything to everything, but in its niche the PUSH is definitely dominant.
think about it...
Ableton's programming has been around for years and years with refinement in every version.
Experience and input from millions of users.

I almost feel like Ableton hid in the woods and spy'd on Native Instruments, Roland, Roger Lynn, Akai, etc.. and learned from all their mistakes. Ableton was the last to announce a release on a DAW midi.[/quote]

Push is very well crafted. Needs a few more updates to polish up a few loose bits. I am very happy with the number and type of controls

panten
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Re: Poor PUSH

Post by panten » Sun Aug 11, 2013 8:36 am

Give us a Sample Chopping Workflow and we'll never need to buy that Maschine.

Buleriachk
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Re: Poor PUSH

Post by Buleriachk » Sun Aug 11, 2013 4:01 pm

For me, it is not the workflow that is the issue, it is the playflow.... :)

robinez
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Re: Poor PUSH

Post by robinez » Sun Aug 11, 2013 4:53 pm

Theo Void wrote:Right NOW, are you happy w/ your purchase?

Do you find yourself adopting a new and exciting work-flow based on Push or are you pain-stakingly trying to implement it and just getting frustrated?
i'm using it now for a month, i bought it together with ableton 9 live suite so i had to learn that to, but it was really easy to learn. I'm really happy with the push, i find it incredible on most parts. The workflow it brought to my studio is incredible. I create the base of a full track now in a couple of hours, this took me much more time in cubase 7. The push is an important part of the speedup of the process.

The scales pad setup took a few hours to learn, i'm a classical trained pianist so i needed some time to adjust to playing on the pads. Now i don't even have to look anymore and can play any part i want on the pads, it's really simple once you have practiced it for a few hours in chromatic mode.

The thing that could improve a lot more is the preset browser, especially when you work with loops and your own instruments or hardware instrument then it's hard to quickly select it in the push. Another thing that could use improvement is the note editing in note mode.

But depite this few quirks, i'm really happy, the browser probably will improve over time by updates, so that's not a big issue for me.
My latest push demo on youtube: Try Out Live Set Trance Classics

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