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Re: Poor PUSH

Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 11:32 am
by Theo Void
Cool. Thanks for the input.
Like I said I'm definitely getting one as soon as they re available.
I can't wait to see what Stray has done with it.

Re: Poor PUSH

Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 2:20 pm
by Rosko
I use it for constructing beats, bass, melodies 90% of the time. I'm still 50/50 with using a keyboard for chords quite often using both a keyboard & push together. I resort to a computer for browsing. I think its great for getting ideas down. I certainly enjoy using it, imo it's intuitive but as you highlighted it has some annoying short falls. Browser is the main one although this is the case for live9 as whole, pads sensitivity is disappointing as is the discoloured pads.

Re: Poor PUSH

Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 3:08 pm
by panten
I don't understand how anyone can complain about the pad sensitivity. Unless there was a bad batch assembled by a bunch of interns.

This was one of the first things I checked and was more than happy. If it was anything other than feather light I would have returned it and bought a Maschine instead.

Re: Poor PUSH

Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 5:16 pm
by SuburbanThug
I can definitely still make great use of it with the sensitivity as it is but it was way more playable in the first release of Live. It's almost like the difference between an electric guitar and an acoustic. Now it's more like an acoustic, i.e you have to press down a bit harder but you might have a wider range of nuance.

Re: Poor PUSH

Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 6:00 pm
by Guillermo Barrancos
SuburbanThug wrote:I can definitely still make great use of it with the sensitivity as it is but it was way more playable in the first release of Live. It's almost like the difference between an electric guitar and an acoustic. Now it's more like an acoustic, i.e you have to press down a bit harder but you might have a wider range of nuance.
Ehh... I thought you could set the pad sensitivity manually to your liking?

I know you can with Maschine. Would have thought you can with Push as well. :roll:

Re: Poor PUSH

Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 6:17 pm
by SuburbanThug
You can. And it's quite playable. There are a lot of variable settings. Maybe I haven't found my sweet spot yet but when you only had the option of 6 different settings I found it to be more playable. Now there are almost 100 settings.

Re: Poor PUSH

Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 6:33 pm
by neuromodulator
FWIW, my Maschine controller is tucked under my couch and has not been plugged in since I got Push. I'm not saying Push is flat-out superior, but I don't really buy the "people who like Push haven't played with Maschine" thing. The 64 pads is making a big difference for me, both for playing melodies and other uses.

(Maschine's larger pads are way better, IMO, for drums, though. I find playing with both hands in a 4x4 area of Push to be too cramped. But when I can spread out over the full grid, Push is very inspirational.)

Re: Poor PUSH

Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 6:35 pm
by neuromodulator
Regarding pad sensitivity, I think there is a legit complaint in that aftertouch sensitivity can't be set independently of velocity sensitivity. I like a light velocity sensitivity, which means I'm sending high aftertouch on any sustained note. I worked around this with Max for Live (I like an aftertouch "dead zone"), but I think they need to be decoupled.

Re: Poor PUSH

Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 10:36 pm
by Aken
ezelkow1 wrote:Keep in mind that is also what a forum attracts, the negative, because people are trying to get satisfaction with an issue they have. Your not going to see a ton of posts/threads stating 'I LOVE PUSH!!!!!111!!!'
I'm not sure about that. I would say that the posters are likely to be fans of Ableton. It's always the same guys posting, and mostly only aware people of what is going on. Also, the forum is not even accessible from the main site of Ableton (or if a button exists, it is very hard to find).

This apart, I want to add my thoughts.

I was very interested in PUSH at first, but 3 thigs made me invest in some other equivalent stuff (Novation, Akai, ...) :
- The wait for shipping : more than 12 weeks ? lol You just can't ask a customer to wait for 3 months in 2013, thats my point, it's available and I want it, I buy, it's not available, I buy something else. I do depending on my needs, and my needs can't wait 3 months.
- The price : more than 600 bucks for a tiny controller which has not even the half in fonctionality of what you can find for products like the Launchpad. Basically, you are paying 600$ for a (well done) plastic piece and some very simple electronic circuits.
- The use : Like I said, PUSH offer nothing more than what already exists. Actually, I believe that those who spent money on PUSH are, in majority, those who, on a regular basis, spend money in gadgets or products that might eventually improve their life or fun, not people that buy things that suit a particular need. Tell me if I'm wrong.

Add to this the many disapointing or barely disapointing things (browser, lights, tier plug-ins, ...) and you get what I consider as a fail : PUSH.

Now, I believe they made money. We can say they didnt take any risk with their shipping politics. But they could have done a damn best seller, a Maschine crusher. Again, that's my point.

Re: Poor PUSH

Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 11:00 pm
by Theo Void
Yes, I thought it would DEFINITELY be the Maschine killer, and so did many others around the internet.

Well, a Maschine killer it definitely IS NOT!

Doesn't even come close.

Re: Poor PUSH

Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 11:52 pm
by Blendton
Aken wrote:
ezelkow1 wrote:Keep in mind that is also what a forum attracts, the negative, because people are trying to get satisfaction with an issue they have. Your not going to see a ton of posts/threads stating 'I LOVE PUSH!!!!!111!!!'
I'm not sure about that. I would say that the posters are likely to be fans of Ableton. It's always the same guys posting, and mostly only aware people of what is going on. Also, the forum is not even accessible from the main site of Ableton (or if a button exists, it is very hard to find).

This apart, I want to add my thoughts.

I was very interested in PUSH at first, but 3 thigs made me invest in some other equivalent stuff (Novation, Akai, ...) :
- The wait for shipping : more than 12 weeks ? lol You just can't ask a customer to wait for 3 months in 2013, thats my point, it's available and I want it, I buy, it's not available, I buy something else. I do depending on my needs, and my needs can't wait 3 months.
- The price : more than 600 bucks for a tiny controller which has not even the half in fonctionality of what you can find for products like the Launchpad. Basically, you are paying 600$ for a (well done) plastic piece and some very simple electronic circuits.
- The use : Like I said, PUSH offer nothing more than what already exists. Actually, I believe that those who spent money on PUSH are, in majority, those who, on a regular basis, spend money in gadgets or products that might eventually improve their life or fun, not people that buy things that suit a particular need. Tell me if I'm wrong.

Add to this the many disapointing or barely disapointing things (browser, lights, tier plug-ins, ...) and you get what I consider as a fail : PUSH.

Now, I believe they made money. We can say they didnt take any risk with their shipping politics. But they could have done a damn best seller, a Maschine crusher. Again, that's my point.
OK.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QD6FZtJDHnk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmQYNuu4pp0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IzCNZLs5_DY

Like or not >>> off-topic.

For Debussy in blind test "Push or my fingers on my Steinway" let's do it, buy me that stuff.

That, copy/pasted.

End.

Don't wanna perform in so little time with so much "freedom" feel like that ? You don't play music, you should go on Steam or somewhat more - in fact so deep in the spiritual sense - I can't follow you Mastermind of the way music playing needs CHANGE.

End, .

Re: Poor PUSH

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 12:23 am
by Aken
I didnt understand anything you said but you can pm me in french if you need :)

Re: Poor PUSH

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 12:50 am
by ezelkow1
On the price factor I do definitely agree, if I had to pay 600$ I probably would not have gotten it as I dont think any controller is worth that much. However getting it for 430$ it was definitely worth it especially compared to the competition in that price range for me

Re: Poor PUSH

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 12:52 am
by Blendton
Seems cool because I just cop/paste some proof of concept, meaning here that Push I admit having like everyone at first, I... thought it was a joke, even to the point I forgot who was at Ableton head ... Henke and Behles never were posers and because the later sacrfice the music thing to become an executive, I wish some folks could understand the diff between facts and myths : while everyone cries about an indexer linked to a controller these guys indeed BUY the "controller" >>> what's happening now ?

Except for "wanna be never were and never will be" music playing / music makers, who give up by quoting the almighty "workflow" (lol, this word is the same as our french word "proactive" to say "WTF a higher so complex thing you little boy should go back to your play yard" ...

One month in dudes hands here, for those I know they play music for real : no exception, they all admit it's an air blow in some hard to breathe universe, where means become limits to our creativity and tools are just redundant ...

Push has the look for such a redundant thing. Unti you see performances.

Behles is WTF Behles is, what Behles is NOT, is a risk taking unable to think znd push things forward guy like we all have to bear everyday ...

I'm faded with smart trolling unhappy from Live 9 or not able to see on vids that the player, behind Youtube, is fucking enjoying and there'smore, because it just began to show up : as I'm writing this, there already are peple having made that switch of mind about what looks like a "some another pad midi control shit" marketed as an instrument >>> how can they dare saying bullshit like this, etc

Results : see videos, see a performer, playing a score. Push isn't wuthout Live 9. The whoole thing indeed is really close to an instrument ; now realize the pair having the software part being geniously before a unique (in terms of potential) mixture of Live and Max ... Add the new Suite huuuuuge contents in all kind of sound known, classsical but shitst oops dubstep too,

Sorry I have a "frengluish" way to write - lol - hope I'm at least coined on what I want to end now, what ^pissses me of and make me melt with that crowd lol

There will be some troll to say I'm a fanboy, the guy makes me laugh before coming, since I actually made peace with Cubase and had to re-.....member hiw the hell I passed this 210 shit in Digidesign Courseware, a post-prod task I have been asked for help, but what's the point with other products since they don't do the same job .. ?

Re: Poor PUSH

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 12:56 am
by Theo Void
Blendton wrote:Seems cool because I just cop/paste some proof of concept, meaning here that Push I admit having like everyone at first, I... thought it was a joke, even to the point I forgot who was at Ableton head ... Henke and Behles never were posers and because the later sacrfice the music thing to become an executive, I wish some folks could understand the diff between facts and myths : while everyone cries about an indexer linked to a controller these guys indeed BUY the "controller" >>> what's happening now ?

Except for "wanna be never were and never will be" music playing / music makers, who give up by quoting the almighty "workflow" (lol, this word is the same as our french word "proactive" to say "WTF a higher so complex thing you little boy should go back to your play yard" ...

One month in dudes hands here, for those I know they play music for real : no exception, they all admit it's an air blow in some hard to breathe universe, where means become limits to our creativity and tools are just redundant ...

Push has the look for such a redundant thing. Unti you see performances.

Behles is WTF Behles is, what Behles is NOT, is a risk taking unable to think znd push things forward guy like we all have to bear everyday ...

I'm faded with smart trolling unhappy from Live 9 or not able to see on vids that the player, behind Youtube, is fucking enjoying and there'smore, because it just began to show up : as I'm writing this, there already are peple having made that switch of mind about what looks like a "some another pad midi control shit" marketed as an instrument >>> how can they dare saying bullshit like this, etc

Results : see videos, see a performer, playing a score. Push isn't wuthout Live 9. The whoole thing indeed is really close to an instrument ; now realize the pair having the software part being geniously before a unique (in terms of potential) mixture of Live and Max ... Add the new Suite huuuuuge contents in all kind of sound known, classsical but shitst oops dubstep too,

Sorry I have a "frengluish" way to write - lol - hope I'm at least coined on what I want to end now, what ^pissses me of and make me melt with that crowd lol

There will be some troll to say I'm a fanboy, the guy makes me laugh before coming, since I actually made peace with Cubase and had to re-.....member hiw the hell I passed this 210 shit in Digidesign Courseware, a post-prod task I have been asked for help, but what's the point with other products since they don't do the same job .. ?
I'm sorry but I have no fucking clue what the hell you are blathering about.

I cannot for the life of me make sense of any of it.