Your Push Experience

Come here to discuss Push with other users.
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Buleriachk
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Re: Your Push Experience

Post by Buleriachk » Wed Jul 31, 2013 9:11 pm

Chromatic mode is better on a conventional keyboard, IMO....
(on mine I can transpose in steps and octaves as well), so all I have to do is memorize one scale and its interval relations.. Chromatic mode removes all the advantages of "InKey" just to get the V7 of the relative scale.... and you have limited octave range, in comparison....

In any case, I can do all of this on the Launchpad/95 (just no pressure sensitivity - but that's coming, too from Novation, I'm sure...)

I am delighted you like Push so much. You can live with the workarounds... and they ARE workarounds... I prefer other alternatives for the reasons I've stated. And if Ableton upgrades Push, I'll be on it in a NT second.....

Anyway, I'm outta here, at least for now.

sowhoso
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Re: Your Push Experience

Post by sowhoso » Wed Jul 31, 2013 9:20 pm

hey Buleriachk, i have an idea for you...

stick with your conventional keyboard

:P

robinez
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Re: Your Push Experience

Post by robinez » Wed Jul 31, 2013 9:23 pm

Buleriachk wrote:Chromatic mode is better on a conventional keyboard (I can see the black keys)
(on mine I can transpose in steps and octaves as well), so all I have to do is memorize one scale ..
hehehe, my piano teacher considered transposing as cheating so I learned the hard way playing scales in every key.

black keys has of course nothing to do with this, the use of black keys depends on the scale, there are scales where the V7 is not a black key for instance the DmV7).

In that case the Push system is even better since it doesn't lit the keys that are out of scale, so you don't have to memorize them in any key.
My latest push demo on youtube: Try Out Live Set Trance Classics

Buleriachk
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Re: Your Push Experience

Post by Buleriachk » Thu Aug 01, 2013 7:09 pm

I guess my main point is that the present focus of Push seems to be on sound production (textures, etc.) with emphasis on smooth control of effects, sounds (devices), and not so much on making music live (jamming). This actually is logical (I think I said this earlier), as most venues for making money would be in the area of TV, Radio, commercials, and videogames, (heavy post production as well), and I do agree that not having to learn the black keys to change scales/keys via passing tones does make performance more democratic - it is much easier to be on the "same wavelength" even live, if the key and scale is set in advance.

I need (for $600) the musical freedom to navigate effortlessly (like on a guitar) between keys, scales, etc., but the physical technique on a guitar is much, much more difficult than that required for the Push. The upside is that Push (or L95) can open up whole new worlds of enjoyment for new musicians; in a sense, it is a "short road to geometry". The bad news is that it forces musical limitations on those who enjoy more flexibility.

For myself, I find that (at present) I don't need (very much) the ability to tweak sounds - for me, there are plenty already available. What passes for creativity for me is in the use of melody and harmony (and complex rhythm), not in quality and complexity of sound texture mostly expressible in 4/4 (duple meter). Push is a first quality choice for the latter perspective, which is not easily duplicated, even in Maschine + Launchpad.

I do think that this freedom can be implemented in upcoming versions of Push by using a user mode that allows momentary switches for relative major/minor (e.g. hold switch down to permanently change, and real time navigation around the Circle of Fifths (by allowing users to set the values of the top two rows). But Ableton is certainly one of the major players in the progress of music/sound, wherever it is going in the future....

I know that I will be watching closely and with interest, with $600 waiting and ready......


yur2die4
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Re: Your Push Experience

Post by yur2die4 » Thu Aug 01, 2013 8:51 pm

I know. I keep having to bite my lip on his accusations that it is not appropriate for 'playing', simply because it does not have nuclear functions to retrofit his expectations of in key mode :P. as with any instrument, all that is required is a bit of time, practice and ingenuity.

Buleriachk
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Re: Your Push Experience

Post by Buleriachk » Thu Aug 01, 2013 9:23 pm

I was comparing emphases. This response completely misses my point.
Hey, "Inkey" is just great. As long as you stay in key (along with everyone else).

There is good news and bad news!
The good news - the tools of production are at last in the hands of the workers.
The bad news - the tools of production are at last in the hands of the workers.

"InKey" playing is what dumb musicians think great musicians sound like.....

Duh!
sowhoso wrote:
Buleriachk wrote:...Push...emphasis...not so much on making music live (jamming).
Last edited by Buleriachk on Thu Aug 01, 2013 9:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

sowhoso
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Re: Your Push Experience

Post by sowhoso » Thu Aug 01, 2013 9:28 pm

Buleriachk wrote:Hey, "Inkey" is just great. As long as you stay in key.

Duh!
DUH?!

how long will it take you to learn to use chromatic mode?
Buleriachk's edit wrote:"InKey" playing is what dumb musicians think great musicians sound like.....
YOU talk about being dumb...really
Last edited by sowhoso on Thu Aug 01, 2013 9:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Buleriachk
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Re: Your Push Experience

Post by Buleriachk » Thu Aug 01, 2013 9:29 pm

But then I can't fake it as a musical genius "InKey" .....

Especially since I can't switch back and forth between keys (or even relative major and minor or even Chromatic and "InKey") instantaneously in real time, like I can on an conventional keyboard....

In any case, I just discovered Fabrizio's IsoController:

http://fabriziopoce.com/isocontrollers.html

Going to try it out tonight.....

Update: The IsoController runs great, especially in M4L mode, where you can actually see the scale, mode, and transpose in the device (functioning like the LED windows in Push), and you can use the arrow keys on the Launchpad to modify them. Even better, it runs on top of Launchpad95. Launchpad95 has the feature that indicates the note played
all over the matrix if the scale overlaps the end of the row, which is nice feature that I find more useful than the 3rd and 5th indicators in Iso.

However, Iso lit up the pads on my Launchpad S like a Christmas tree, where L95's pad lighting is still dull.

That said, they are both excellent, and if you get them you will have a great preview of Push's functionality in Note Mode. (Fabrizio thinks he can add my modifications in the future.... great response from him)

sowhoso wrote:
Buleriachk wrote:Hey, "Inkey" is just great. As long as you stay in key.

Duh!
DUH?!

how long will it take you to learn to use chromatic mode?

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