Learn to play ableton push or piano?

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uberdavis
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Re: Learn to play ableton push or piano?

Post by uberdavis » Tue Nov 05, 2013 4:44 pm

There's a guitar element to this question too.
Playing scales up a push does not have a dissimilar feel to playing scales along a fretboard.
I'm not that convinced that learning one or the other is that important.
There's the same core skill of combining notes to play chords, and being able to play up and down the grid with two hands that is common to all three instruments.
Time spent on one instrument can only enhance skill on the others.
I think of it as similar to learning languages.
Someone who has learnt English, Italian, Greek and Portugeuse would probably be able to pick up Spanish really quickly.

I bought the Push, pretty much because I was surprised at how quick and easy it is to pick up how to play it.
Even if the Push isn't around in ten years time, if you're good at playing a Push, still counts!
Any skills learning scales and chords on a Push transfer to piano or guitar.
Ultimately, on all three instruments, the music theory is the same. A ninth chord still involves combining a I, III, perfect V, dominant VII and a IX (II).
If you can do that on a Push, you should be able to work it out on a keyboard or guitar.

Darren Lipper
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Re: Learn to play ableton push or piano?

Post by Darren Lipper » Mon Nov 11, 2013 9:47 pm

In my experience (I come from a bass and clarinet background, also shedding piano) some things are easier to play on the piano, some are easier to play on the push.

I've been trying to learn piano and push at the same time.. for example, I'll work on a song on piano, then try the same song on Push. Also, I'll transcribe bass lines or solos on push, and try to develop my technique around that.

As uberdavis states,as long as you are approaching either musically, it's all good.

Buleriachk
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Re: Learn to play ableton push or piano?

Post by Buleriachk » Mon Nov 11, 2013 10:06 pm

As long as you don't use any black keys, you'll be fine..... :)
Darren Lipper wrote:In my experience (I come from a bass and clarinet background, also shedding piano) some things are easier to play on the piano, some are easier to play on the push.

I've been trying to learn piano and push at the same time.. for example, I'll work on a song on piano, then try the same song on Push. Also, I'll transcribe bass lines or solos on push, and try to develop my technique around that.

As uberdavis states,as long as you are approaching either musically, it's all good.

thunderkyss
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Re: Learn to play ableton push or piano?

Post by thunderkyss » Sat Nov 30, 2013 3:54 pm

This is an old thread, but I wanted to add my two cents.

I don't want to learn how to play piano. I've tried & honestly, I can't invest the time to learn to master the keyboard, for whatever reason.

I'm a guitar player. I'm fairly proficient. I like playing guitar & there's a lot more learning I need to do. I'm invested there. Because of my proficiency on guitar, I'm a pretty decent bass player.

I can't play drums on piano. But I'm not bad on Maschine, or my MV-8800, even though I've had keyboards a lot longer. My first keyboard was a Yamaha PSR, then I bought an EPS-16+, then a Fantom-S, a VK-7, & finally a Fantom-X (what can I say? G.A.S.). But since I got the MV-8800, I've been turning out much better drum tracks, much faster than beating them in on a keybed & editing them with a mouse (adjusting timing & velocity).

First time I saw Push, it made sense to me (I still don't own one... actually, it's on it's way)... a guitar player.

As far as hand position & technique & all the other arguments for piano, they only make sense, if a person wants to play piano. If a person chooses to express themselves & communicate through the piano.

I don't. I want to lay down rough musical ideas with piano sounds, other keybed instruments; Rhodes, B3, Clavinets, Wurlies...... & synths... it's quite possible that the keybed has been holding those instruments back.

As far as the theory, that applies to all instruments. Teaching my hands to access that information on a Push is no different than teaching my hands to access it on a guitar, or trumpet, or ukulele, or a harmonica.

Then Push allows you to learn in stages. Use the in-key mode, then advance to using different scales, then eventually put all the notes back on. & 64 buttons is more than enough if 61 keys are enough for a Hammond, or a Clavinet.

& aside from all that, go to youtube & search "launchpad" if you see how kids (people) are using that thing to make music, this whole conversation is moot. The goal is to make music, to express ourselves & instrumentslike the mpc, the launchpad, & all these alternative controllers are opening brand new ways to do that.

Buleriachk
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Re: Learn to play ableton push or piano?

Post by Buleriachk » Sat Nov 30, 2013 5:15 pm

You can do most of that with a Launchpad. But Mozart and Beethoven will be rolling over in their graves.... :) On the other hand, even with in-key, the music will be better than the "concerts for steam-shovel and kazoo" coming out of a lot of the beat makers....

That said, the Launchpad + Launchpad95 will pretty much do what you want to do in Live... the only issue then is the controller for other things, IMO can be handled just as well with mouse, keyboard, and a basic controller (say Novation Launch Control, which complements the LP.)

I just pulled the trigger on a Maschine Studio; editing samples and loop is crazy-easy, even if Ableton is much deeper in many ways. And even a used Maschine Mk I (original will act as an excellent controller for live, as soon as the fix the templates, which got broken with Live 9.1... (9.0.6 worked fine....)

I'm a guitarist too, and really miss the accidentals within a key - I really liked In-Key, but it got boring very fast - nevertheless, it was easy to sound "good" very fast and a lot of fun. But you can do that with a Launchpad.

Bottom line; I think we are similar in our uses - and I think Push is overkill for a guitarist that is not really into sound design or effect manipulation. Maschine provides an excellent (really excellent) beginning sound library, and Komplete 9 is extraordinary, Komplete 9 Ultimate even more so) for exploring and tweaking existing presets...

That said, I'm sure I will spring for "Push II - i.e. Shove" if I'm still around. I don't really need need the Studio (I have a Mk II), but those beautiful LCD screens kept staring.... and staring... and staring... at me.....

For me, the main advantage of Live is the seamless time stretching live; and the ability to perform audio loops mixed with midi at different tempos using the matrix (Push or LP) But for me the computer screen is as good or better than Push's LED's......

Bottom line - IMO, Live 9 + Maschine + Launchpad is a KILLER combination (especially for guitarists) .....

thunderkyss wrote:This is an old thread, but I wanted to add my two cents.

I don't want to learn how to play piano. I've tried & honestly, I can't invest the time to learn to master the keyboard, for whatever reason.

I'm a guitar player. I'm fairly proficient. I like playing guitar & there's a lot more learning I need to do. I'm invested there. Because of my proficiency on guitar, I'm a pretty decent bass player.

I can't play drums on piano. But I'm not bad on Maschine, or my MV-8800, even though I've had keyboards a lot longer. My first keyboard was a Yamaha PSR, then I bought an EPS-16+, then a Fantom-S, a VK-7, & finally a Fantom-X (what can I say? G.A.S.). But since I got the MV-8800, I've been turning out much better drum tracks, much faster than beating them in on a keybed & editing them with a mouse (adjusting timing & velocity).

First time I saw Push, it made sense to me (I still don't own one... actually, it's on it's way)... a guitar player.

As far as hand position & technique & all the other arguments for piano, they only make sense, if a person wants to play piano. If a person chooses to express themselves & communicate through the piano.

I don't. I want to lay down rough musical ideas with piano sounds, other keybed instruments; Rhodes, B3, Clavinets, Wurlies...... & synths... it's quite possible that the keybed has been holding those instruments back.

As far as the theory, that applies to all instruments. Teaching my hands to access that information on a Push is no different than teaching my hands to access it on a guitar, or trumpet, or ukulele, or a harmonica.

Then Push allows you to learn in stages. Use the in-key mode, then advance to using different scales, then eventually put all the notes back on. & 64 buttons is more than enough if 61 keys are enough for a Hammond, or a Clavinet.

& aside from all that, go to youtube & search "launchpad" if you see how kids (people) are using that thing to make music, this whole conversation is moot. The goal is to make music, to express ourselves & instrumentslike the mpc, the launchpad, & all these alternative controllers are opening brand new ways to do that.

BoddAH
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Re: Learn to play ableton push or piano?

Post by BoddAH » Thu Dec 05, 2013 9:14 pm

My gripe with the Launchpad is that the pads aren't even velocity sensitive.

So much for expressive playing... :roll:

Buleriachk
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Re: Learn to play ableton push or piano?

Post by Buleriachk » Thu Dec 05, 2013 9:28 pm

Who cares about expressive playing more than a couple of octaves?... (Yes, the Push is velocity sensitive, but so is Maschine, and I can use automation if I have to...)

But in the meantime, I can do with what I have (including several velocity sensitive keyboards with transpose...) But I can certainly appreciate those who can't (wait, that is..)
BoddAH wrote:My gripe with the Launchpad is that the pads aren't even velocity sensitive.

So much for expressive playing... :roll:

thunderkyss
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Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2012 4:04 pm

Re: Learn to play ableton push or piano?

Post by thunderkyss » Fri Dec 06, 2013 8:57 pm

I screwed up & bought the Launchpad mini. Works fine with Launchpad95, but it's too small for my gorilla paws. At least that's my first impression & that's playing "in key" mode.

Just got finished jamming with Push for a few hours (arrived last night) & I'm more than likely going to stick with the chromatic scale. That way I can go from one song to the next, one mode to the next as easily as I can on guitar (or keyboard). Using in key mode, while great for someone just starting, is like using a capo (other than for the effect).

vibhor
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Re: Learn to play ableton push or piano?

Post by vibhor » Sun Apr 27, 2014 9:15 am

33tetragammon wrote:
jestermgee wrote:
Remember that Push doesn't really run without Ableton and that in its "Raw" notes mode it does nothing more really than a launchpad with velocity. You may find yourself locked into Ableton simply because you cannot play another instrument.
That is about to change when this comes out: http://www.nativekontrol.com/PXT-General.html
From the GENIUS that is Stray.
hot shit bro hot shit !!!!

Buleriachk
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Re: Learn to play ableton push or piano?

Post by Buleriachk » Sun Apr 27, 2014 3:24 pm

Actually, I finally broke down and bought a Push. And yes indeed, the velocity sensitivity really does make a difference (as well as all the other Push functions.)

That said, I have an order in for the APC Mini, which I could use, like, yesterday, ...:)

This is all really fun stuff, I just have to figure out how to make the rent with it....

Cool Character
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Re: Learn to play ableton push or piano?

Post by Cool Character » Mon May 05, 2014 7:07 pm

To the guys saying that Push will be obsolete in 10 years, while the piano won't:

This may be true, but I don't think grid-based instruments will be obsolete, and I don't think your channel-aftertouch keyboard with only z-axis sensitivity will avoid obsolescence, either. So, in the end you'll be investing into instruments that will become obsolete, either way, and in both cases are learning skills that will transfer over to new tech.

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