Learn to play ableton push or piano?

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BoddAH
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Re: Learn to play ableton push or piano?

Post by BoddAH » Mon Oct 14, 2013 11:45 am

crumhorn wrote:In 10 years time Push will be irrelevant but piano keyboards will still be everywhere.
It's a gamble but it is also possible that devices like Push become the new standard and pianos will become irrelevant.

New devices like Maschine or Push, or even the iPad with all its smart instruments are relatively new but they are becoming increasingly popular, sell like hot cakes and are objectively more flexible, easier to use and powerful than the traditional input device for composing music (keyboards), at least if you're not already a proficient piano/keyboard player.

When you can express yourself and write your music relatively easily and intuitively with these new devices and the only alternative is spending years upon years learning a punishing and difficult instrument like the piano, I think the opposite is quite possible as well.

In ten years, a much more powerful, flexible and probably cheaper version of Push Mk 2 or 3 will be there. It is obvious given its success. The product has been sold out for 6 months! The competition will probably enter the market as well and this already incredible tool will become even more attractive.

I don't think piano keyboards will ever become irrelevant but the new "standard" for composing may very well become one of these new interfaces and pianos will become just another one of these traditional instruments played by a few very dedicated people (like the violin, saxophone and most other instruments).

crumhorn
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Re: Learn to play ableton push or piano?

Post by crumhorn » Mon Oct 14, 2013 12:16 pm

I doubt that there will ever be a standard computer music interface, it's a continuously evolving thing. But I agree that boxes with square arrays of pads that can be programmed however you like will probably be around for a long time to come.

Disagree that learning piano is punishing though. Learning and progressively mastering any instrument - including Push - is a greatly rewarding experience. you can only get out what you put in, push is no different in that respect.
"The banjo is the perfect instrument for the antisocial."

(Allow me to plug my guitar scale visualiser thingy - www.fretlearner.com)

re:dream
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Re: Learn to play ableton push or piano?

Post by re:dream » Mon Oct 14, 2013 12:54 pm

BoddAH wrote: In ten years, a much more powerful, flexible and probably cheaper version of Push Mk 2 or 3 will be there. It is obvious given its success. The product has been sold out for 6 months! The competition will probably enter the market as well and this already incredible tool will become even more attractive.

I don't think piano keyboards will ever become irrelevant but the new "standard" for composing may very well become one of these new interfaces and pianos will become just another one of these traditional instruments played by a few very dedicated people (like the violin, saxophone and most other instruments).

In ten years' time, computers and midi controllers will also be one of those traditional musical instruments played by very dedicated people. The utter collapse of the music industry and the rise of internet marketing mean that all popular music will be generated by a series of virtual bots plugged into real-time analysis of itunes, spotify and selected focus groups of masturbating American teenagers. People making a living making music on harpsichords, hurdy-gurdy and Ableton Live will lead impoverished lives one-room bedsits in Berlin, Krakow and trailer parks in the outskirts of Darwin, Australia and Corona, California

crumhorn
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Re: Learn to play ableton push or piano?

Post by crumhorn » Mon Oct 14, 2013 12:59 pm

^ true
"The banjo is the perfect instrument for the antisocial."

(Allow me to plug my guitar scale visualiser thingy - www.fretlearner.com)

yur2die4
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Re: Learn to play ableton push or piano?

Post by yur2die4 » Mon Oct 14, 2013 5:48 pm

The problem is the obsession with superstar virtuosity, as opposed to good old fashioned musical expression.

I believe that traditional instruments will have a standing for a long time now, especially because they Don't change. I've actually made a few posts yearning for new 'standards' on modern instruments both as sounds And device. Standards in performance. Without these, every person basically 'marks' their own territory, and most people aren't interested in smelling it. The me, me, me culture.

sowhoso
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Re: Learn to play ableton push or piano?

Post by sowhoso » Mon Oct 14, 2013 7:37 pm

yur2die4 wrote:superstar virtuosity
what does that mean?
good old fashioned musical expression
what does that mean?


:?: :?: :?:

re:dream
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Re: Learn to play ableton push or piano?

Post by re:dream » Mon Oct 14, 2013 7:39 pm

yur2die4 wrote:T
I believe that traditional instruments will have a standing for a long time now, especially because they Don't change.
They also don't have to be plugged into an electrical power outlet.

Believe you me, after the coming apocalypse, when we are all reduced to huddling around little fires in the smoking ruins, your Ableton Push is not going to make any sounds.

yur2die4
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Re: Learn to play ableton push or piano?

Post by yur2die4 » Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:56 pm

When I mention 'superstar virtuosity', it applies to our culture's intrigue with people that seem to be able to play an instrument in a mega-proficient Gifted sort of way. People can be great at these instruments, but it starts becoming absurd when people begin worshipping the performer Or even the instrument over the actual musical output. Superstar dj's, pianists, hip thrusting guitarists and hummingbirdesque drummers. It's all cool, but in most cases it is also ridiculously novelty, like how most people only hear Silent Night when they are surrounded by Xmas decor. Out of the context of the performer's ego, some music isn't always as awesome. BUT, there are always two sides to everything, and I understand that in most cases they are proficient and admired beCAUSE of the quality of their output.

As for 'good old fashioned expression', we live in the era of the spotlight. And loudness wars. And Looking the part to get attention. Everyone wants the spotlight, and in a lot of cases, the way people steal it is with any and as much energy as they can possibly convey. With electronic computer devices it is even more tempting to scream, pulsate, swoosh people's ears into their direction. I get tired of all that. I know people are also just playing various kinds of music, but the talk of people breaking and exploring new ground, exploring a new instrument, I'm probably just old :P

And jaded. And I'm a hypocrite. Just to set that straight. And I ramble myself into a hole usually.

So then this, instruments being plugged in or not also resonates with my whole 'standard' idea. Okay, so when there is no electricity, and no churning of 1's and 0's, these newer instruments might be unusable. And the acoustic varieties would withstand. But what else sets acoustic instruments apart from electronic ones? Acoustic instruments are usually dedicated to being played in a certain manner, which is nearly unchangeable. This develops routines, practices, and a foundation for the modernists to Leap off of. You have a constant in the lab for comparison. This also applies to sound output. Certain instruments are known to make certain sounds. Now we have a shitstorm of sound making tools. Some have managed to establish themselves and are stuck in our culture as influential instruments which many other things are compared to. I'm especially looking at You, Roland, with your tb303's, tr6789-0-6789's, Jupiter, Juno, etc.

What will be the next combo of characteristic sound, melded with performance device? And what does it take to make something like that exist permanently in our culture?

I'm way off topic.

Learn to play both. Life is too long anyway.

tedlogan
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Re: Learn to play ableton push or piano?

Post by tedlogan » Mon Oct 14, 2013 10:54 pm

If you're saying, in a nutshell, that you prefer expressive musical output as opposed to technical proficiency, or "chops", I agree with you. Virtuosos are, to me, for the most part, boring and uninteresting. I'd much rather listen to Kurt Cobain playing one of his fairly simple but highly expressive guitar solos than say, Yngwie Malmsteen jerking off at me.

But I also respect them for their skill. I guess whatever makes one's ears happy. Most, but not all music I listen to contain zero masterful instrument playing, and is more focused on expression.

Back to the original poster's question - I suppose you should learn the one you enjoy the most. Or both.

yur2die4
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Re: Learn to play ableton push or piano?

Post by yur2die4 » Mon Oct 14, 2013 11:09 pm

I guess I should add that if you UNDERSTAND the piano, the layout of it, and in sheet music, then also apply that with theory, I'm pretty sure it'd take you dramatically further in exploring Push than doing it the other way around.

But, learnin's is both a blessin and a Curse! You can find unique territory by developing your own habits. Or at least your own way that can work naturally. Or you could develop bad habits. Learning can be both inspiring and constricting. The biggest thing is to always listen, and always play, and fight those demons, explore your voice and the voices of others.

I'm curious, how many people have become 'one' with their Push, where it simply plays naturally for them, I the extent that they can play different varieties of music on it with their eyes closed?

samsteeno
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Re: Learn to play ableton push or piano?

Post by samsteeno » Tue Oct 15, 2013 12:46 am

The Finn wrote:Believe you me, after the coming apocalypse, when we are all reduced to huddling around little fires in the smoking ruins, your Ableton Push is not going to make any sounds.
My new sig hahaha!
The Finn wrote:Believe you me, after the coming apocalypse, when we are all reduced to huddling around little fires in the smoking ruins, your Ableton Push is not going to make any sounds.
https://soundcloud.com/sam-steensen

JES
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Re: Learn to play ableton push or piano?

Post by JES » Tue Oct 15, 2013 2:54 am

Why not learn both? The piano technique won't hurt for Push. And I've found electronic instruments more rewarding because of my more traditional background (bass, though I took 4 months of bi-weekly piano classes). Then you can enjoy both worlds.

re:dream
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Re: Learn to play ableton push or piano?

Post by re:dream » Tue Oct 15, 2013 4:28 am

Time, I guess. If one has limited time to learn an instrument, you gotta choose.


Buleriachk
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Re: Learn to play ableton push or piano?

Post by Buleriachk » Mon Oct 21, 2013 4:39 pm

If you learn keyboard, you can use the relative harmonic minor(s), secondary dominants, and passing chords.....

(Jazz guitarist- "I know 20 million chords and I like them all equally"
(Flamenco/rock guitarist - "I may only know two chords, but I really like them both a lot !!"

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