Count-in in Ableton Push

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Stromkraft
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Re: Count-in in Ableton Push

Post by Stromkraft » Sun Jun 19, 2016 5:43 pm

Stromkraft wrote:
rxguru wrote:It works correctly in the software GUI if you select "Start Playback on Record" in the preferences.
Not when overdubbing for me. Naturally I tested with that on and off.
OK, you discovered something new there that I think is a bug. You're correct that if preferences "Start Playback with Record" is set to on it works. If it's off, then overdubbing from the Live GUI doesn't work, like it was in my case.

I don''t think this effect from this particular preference makes sense.
Last edited by Stromkraft on Sun Jun 19, 2016 6:09 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Stromkraft
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Re: Count-in in Ableton Push

Post by Stromkraft » Sun Jun 19, 2016 6:05 pm

Stromkraft wrote:
"What I do:
With "Start Recording on Scene Launch" set to off and count-in set to 2 bars I start a recording and record one clip on my MIDI track. Count-in runs for 2 bars before recording begins. Then I make another recording.

What I expect:
Count-in to work like the first time and run for 2 bars.

What happens instead:
Count-in is omitted and Live jumps into recording at once.

This can be countered by setting the "Start Recording on Scene Launch" preference to on. This is bewildering for the user and unnecessary. There is already an on/off switch for count-ins. There's no need whatsoever for a separate control. Also even if there is one, this is counter-intuitive and there's no info given that this is to be expected."
Actually I must disagree with myself a bit. Of course "Start Recording on Scene Launch" should omit count-ins. While I think it's better if count-in active always mean there's going to be a count-in I can see that this preference probably has uses for some users. I kinda expect Ableton will tell me this behavior is by design.

What is lacking is proper GUI feedback. Even advanced features shouldn't potentially leave the user bewildered over what's going on. Maybe a different color for the overdub button or something?
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[jur]
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Re: Count-in in Ableton Push

Post by [jur] » Sun Jun 19, 2016 10:30 pm

Maybe I've missed something rxguru (I haven't read everything), but as I told you in the other thread I think you're actually after the "global quantisation" setting. Count-in only works when you're starting transport.
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Stromkraft
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Re: Count-in in Ableton Push

Post by Stromkraft » Mon Jun 20, 2016 10:07 am

[jur] wrote: Count-in only works when you're starting transport.
I don't think this is the issue for rxguru nor is it for me. The issue is more about Live preferences and inability to get a count-in when that is set to active. There also seem to be some interactions with the preferences that are somewhat inconsistent with what is reasonable to expect should happen when using the record button.
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rxguru
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Re: Count-in in Ableton Push

Post by rxguru » Mon Jun 20, 2016 2:44 pm

@jur...that was not me you were responding to, that was another user (I commented After you responded to him). But my problem is very simple:When you press the Session Record button on the Push 2 you do NOT get a count-in every time. The count-in only works on the first try (before the midi clip is formed). Makes it a PITA/awkward/frustrating to "build up" the beat/loop.

[jur]
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Re: Count-in in Ableton Push

Post by [jur] » Mon Jun 20, 2016 4:07 pm

rxguru wrote:@jur...that was not me you were responding to, that was another user (I commented After you responded to him). But my problem is very simple:When you press the Session Record button on the Push 2 you do NOT get a count-in every time. The count-in only works on the first try (before the midi clip is formed). Makes it a PITA/awkward/frustrating to "build up" the beat/loop.
I can't understand what I don't understand then... :lol:
It is a count-IN, even though I'm not a native english speaker it means exactly what it supposed to.
When transport isn't running yet, if you start recording you'll get a metronome count-in if it is set so.
When transport is already running, you need to use the "global quantisation" setting to set an "pre-rec" time (+metronome eventually). That way you can e.g press record and the clip will actually start recording 2 bars later.

Now, while trying in order to understand what your problem would be, I realised that the global quantisation actually has a weird behavior. If it's set to 2 bars, it will actually start recording on the next bar if you've pressed record after the 2nd beat (it seems more random actually). Might be good to check this with the support.

Is it what you're talking about?
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rxguru
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Re: Count-in in Ableton Push

Post by rxguru » Mon Jun 20, 2016 4:34 pm

We are Not talking about "while transport is running".
1. What I do is press the session record button....I DO get a count in....i record some midi data
2. I STOP the transport (to think, browse sounds, get a sandwich, whatever, lol)
3. I press session record button once more (attempting to build on my idea)....there is NO count in...it immediately start recording/playing the loop back

[jur]
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Re: Count-in in Ableton Push

Post by [jur] » Mon Jun 20, 2016 5:00 pm

Ok I see. There's no count-in until you first press New or select an other empty clip to record.
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rxguru
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Re: Count-in in Ableton Push

Post by rxguru » Mon Jun 20, 2016 5:13 pm

Thats right. But i do not want to press new, or go to another clip. I want to continue building in the SAME clip I am currently working on. Is this a bug?

Stromkraft
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Re: Count-in in Ableton Push

Post by Stromkraft » Mon Jun 20, 2016 5:24 pm

[jur] wrote:Ok I see. There's no count-in until you first press New or select an other empty clip to record.
Yes, we know that. The main point is that there should be a count-in in this particular situation when overdubbing an existing clip and count-in is set to be active.

Why? Because count-in is on and recording is about to take place. What if your first note need to get on 1.1.1 in a 64 bar loop? In that case you need a count-in. If a user doesn't want a count-in in this or another situation it's simple to just inactivate it.

Also, in Arrangement mode overdub count-in works as expected also when overdubbing into an existing clip. It should work the same in Session mode.
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Stromkraft
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Re: Count-in in Ableton Push

Post by Stromkraft » Mon Jun 20, 2016 5:27 pm

[jur] wrote: When transport isn't running yet, if you start recording you'll get a metronome count-in if it is set so.
Not when overdubbing.
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Stromkraft
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Re: Count-in in Ableton Push

Post by Stromkraft » Mon Jun 20, 2016 5:42 pm

[jur] wrote: When transport is already running, you need to use the "global quantisation" setting to set an "pre-rec" time (+metronome eventually). That way you can e.g press record and the clip will actually start recording 2 bars later.
I don't think this is completely correct as this can be understood as 2 full bars later from the point where the Record button was pressed.
The recording in the case you described will actually start at 1.1.1 in the second bar from the point where you pressed the Record button, i e in the bar after the next bar. That could start about 1 bar plus whatever time was left of the bar you were in later, but rarely 2 bars later.

I'm pretty sure that's what you meant, but as this thread and other count-in discussion have shown the details are very important so I just wanted to clarify this detail.
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starving student
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Re: Count-in in Ableton Push

Post by starving student » Mon Jun 20, 2016 5:48 pm

[jur] wrote:Ok I see. There's no count-in until you first press New or select an other empty clip to record.
bingo, I'm sure Jur has already passed this along, thanks for hanging in there man your english is better than my whatever other language I'm trying to speak at any given time :mrgreen:

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Re: Count-in in Ableton Push

Post by [jur] » Mon Jun 20, 2016 6:02 pm

I don't think this is a bug, but it's strange that it isn't working the same way in Arrangement.
I'll ask around.
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Stromkraft
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Re: Count-in in Ableton Push

Post by Stromkraft » Mon Jun 20, 2016 11:21 pm

[jur] wrote:I don't think this is a bug, but it's strange that it isn't working the same way in Arrangement.
I'll ask around.
OK, but this must be considered a bug as this must be or should be unintended behavior. It's from a GUI perspective totally unreasonable to have visual feedback set to on and then silently override this in 2 very similar situations, recording to a new clip and overdubbing an existing one.

An override of functionality is acceptable I think for when "Start Recording on Scene Launch" is set to on, even if it is a stretch as GUI settings perhaps should take precedence over preferences rather than vice versa.

If this overriding functionality is viewed as acceptable at least there should be visual feedback so the user easily can see why there is no count-in even as it's active.
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