The very best method for browsing samples using Push?

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Citizen
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The very best method for browsing samples using Push?

Post by Citizen » Tue May 13, 2014 5:01 am

Is simply making loads and loads of 128s the best way, or has someone devised something that is a better way to browse samples using Push?

Many thanks in advance! 8)

Airyck
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Re: The very best method for browsing samples using Push?

Post by Airyck » Tue May 13, 2014 1:19 pm

Citizen wrote:Is simply making loads and loads of 128s the best way, or has someone devised something that is a better way to browse samples using Push?

Many thanks in advance! 8)
I think 128's with a quickly accessed sample selector mapped to the Push knobs is probably the best way to quickly browse samples IMO.

I usually have a drum rack setup where each pad has a 128 loaded into it.
I'll load the same 128 sampler on 4 pads so that I have access to 4 kicks from that same 128. Then above that I'll load the same 4 snare 128's on to 4 pads so I have access to 4 different snares, then hats, percussion sounds, FX, etc.. etc.. until I have nice variety of sounds to work with. I usually fill up a few pages of the drum rack with them (it doesn't have to be 128 samples either BTW, it works with less too). I save this as a drum kit to be loaded later and usually name them after the sample banks the sounds came from.

It's soooo much easier to get sounds that work together as a kit this way. You find a kick you like, make a pattern, add a snare, clap, hat, etc and then you can quickly change the sounds until they sound really good with your pattern and other sounds. It's also nice to be able to change the sounds quickly later so you can make the drums fit with your other sounds in the song as well.
http://www.soundcloud.com/airyck-sterrett
Ableton Live 10 Suite / Push 2 / Max 7 & 8 /
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Citizen
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Re: The very best method for browsing samples using Push?

Post by Citizen » Wed May 14, 2014 10:51 pm

Thanks for the tips Airyck. I'll see how that goes. Sounds like a winner.

Citizen
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Re: The very best method for browsing samples using Push?

Post by Citizen » Thu May 15, 2014 3:18 am

Airyck, I don't suppose you could post a screen grab of how you set this up?

As I understand it, you have maybe four pads of kicks (each containing a 128 of kicks), and ditto for snares, hi-hats, then percs?

Is that, generally 4 pads for each of those drum categories? (4 pads of kicks, 4 pads of snares, 4 pads of hi-hats, 4 pads of percs)

...and then you might have a few pages in the drum rack that duplicates this structure with more samples from the same sample pack? Is that it? :?:

So, potentially you have several hundred drum samples loaded in each custom drum rack you've built. Does this slow down the system, or take a long time to load?

Also, does this prohibit you from mixing and matching drum sounds from between sample packs?

Finally, do you ever layer drums, and if so, is there a way to reasonably control this technique primarily via the hardware using Push?


Sorry for all the questions, but I want to get this straight before I spend a few nights building up an arsenal of drum racks. :D

Analog4Science
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Re: The very best method for browsing samples using Push?

Post by Analog4Science » Thu May 15, 2014 3:04 pm

what is a 128? sorry i'm not familiar with this slang.

Airyck
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Re: The very best method for browsing samples using Push?

Post by Airyck » Thu May 15, 2014 6:41 pm

Citizen wrote:Airyck, I don't suppose you could post a screen grab of how you set this up?
I'm at work right now so possibly later if I have some time.
Citizen wrote: As I understand it, you have maybe four pads of kicks (each containing a 128 of kicks), and ditto for snares, hi-hats, then percs?

Is that, generally 4 pads for each of those drum categories? (4 pads of kicks, 4 pads of snares, 4 pads of hi-hats, 4 pads of percs)

...and then you might have a few pages in the drum rack that duplicates this structure with more samples from the same sample pack? Is that it? :?:
Yep that's exactly what I'm doing :D
Citizen wrote: So, potentially you have several hundred drum samples loaded in each custom drum rack you've built. Does this slow down the system, or take a long time to load?


It takes a short while to load (nothing excessive) but it streams from disk (unless you specify for the samplers to use RAM). I haven't noticed any kind of slow down of my system. I'm using a quad core iMac with 16GB of RAM FYI.

Citizen wrote:
Also, does this prohibit you from mixing and matching drum sounds from between sample packs?


That's really up to you. A drum rack like this could potentially hold many different sample banks with all of their drums. If you filled up every slot you'd have over 16,000 drum samples in one rack. I think it's simpler to just make individual ones organized how you think is best then load as many drum racks as you want from whichever banks separately. In the end you could extract and group as you felt you needed for mixing purposes.

Citizen wrote: Finally, do you ever layer drums, and if so, is there a way to reasonably control this technique primarily via the hardware using Push?
I do layer drums but I don't worry about doing it from the Push. When I'm in deep sound design mode the mouse and keyboard tend to work better. You could definitely setup a "layering kit" that would allow you to easily layer sounds from the Push, but it's a personal thing on how you like to do it.
Citizen wrote: Sorry for all the questions, but I want to get this straight before I spend a few nights building up an arsenal of drum racks. :D
I get that. Once you build one, play with it for a bit before making more. You'll probably have troubles pulling yourself away to make more.
http://www.soundcloud.com/airyck-sterrett
Ableton Live 10 Suite / Push 2 / Max 7 & 8 /
2016 Macbook Pro 15"
Too much hardware to list

Airyck
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Re: The very best method for browsing samples using Push?

Post by Airyck » Thu May 15, 2014 6:47 pm

Analog4Science wrote:what is a 128? sorry i'm not familiar with this slang.
A 128 is a collection of 128 samples distributed evenly across each of the 128 sample selection positions of Ableton's sampler. It allows you to quick flip through a bunch of samples in context by turning a knob rather than loading samples one by one.

here's an article on them and how to make them

http://www.bketech.com/bkeblog/beat-mak ... eton-live/
http://www.soundcloud.com/airyck-sterrett
Ableton Live 10 Suite / Push 2 / Max 7 & 8 /
2016 Macbook Pro 15"
Too much hardware to list

Citizen
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Re: The very best method for browsing samples using Push?

Post by Citizen » Fri May 16, 2014 10:12 am

Also, just wondering if anyone is building FX chains into their default 128 Drum Rack templates for processing individual drum sounds, and the drum rack as a whole?

Obviously, there are many, many ways that you could possibly do this - but I'm looking for a solid way/structure that gives me control over the most important parameters in Push with ease.

I'm still experimenting, but I'm thinking my default drum rack would have:

* drum selector macros for kicks, snare/claps, hats and percs
* +/- 12 semitones transposition on all drum sounds
* decay parameter
* EQ, compression (and maybe a transient master) per drum pad 8)

Haven't quite worked out the logistics of this, but would such a thing be controllable in Push, diving deeper down in the rack as required?

re:dream
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Re: The very best method for browsing samples using Push?

Post by re:dream » Fri May 16, 2014 10:24 am

My own take.

Rather than build a whole drum rack out of 128s, it makes more sense to develop a library of dedicated 128 samplers that you can load into a drum rack as needed.

So in my user library I have sections for kick sounds, snares, high hats etc. And in each of these I have a number of multisamplers loaded with 128s (thus: soft, brushed snares, techno kicks, etc etc)

Then in my template, I simply have an empty drum rack with all the effects that I want already linked.

I drop 128s on the cells to create the drum racks as I go.

The advantage of this is that my basic template to begin with is very small and that I can make my drum racks flexibly on the fly. Each rack only contains the sound palette relevant to that song.

Citizen
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Re: The very best method for browsing samples using Push?

Post by Citizen » Fri May 16, 2014 10:31 am

Thank you for your good points re:dream. :D I'm definitely trying to glean some perspectives from others that have tried the various methods ahead of me!

At one point I experimented with a similar system in Live 8....still have some of those racks. Must've got side-tracked.


Obviously you would have to use your mouse to drag and drop your 128s onto each drum pad, though, right?

re:dream
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Re: The very best method for browsing samples using Push?

Post by re:dream » Fri May 16, 2014 10:43 am

I use a mouse.
I am sure there are other ways.

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Re: The very best method for browsing samples using Push?

Post by re:dream » Fri May 16, 2014 10:47 am

Citizen wrote:

I'm still experimenting, but I'm thinking my default drum rack would have:

* drum selector macros for kicks, snare/claps, hats and percs
* +/- 12 semitones transposition on all drum sounds
* decay parameter
* EQ, compression (and maybe a transient master) per drum pad 8)

Haven't quite worked out the logistics of this, but would such a thing be controllable in Push, diving deeper down in the rack as required?


I have built a very simple generic empty multisampler for use in drum racks. Sample selector and some of the basic sample controls (ADSR envelope, pitch, volume, etc etc)

Also a larger kick drum rack with the multisampler embedded in a bigger rack with EQ control over the kick drum (reducing rumble, softening the attack, a bit of compression etc)

Easy to make your own, but mine are here

https://www.audiobombs.com/items/491/ge ... ltisampler

https://www.audiobombs.com/items/492/si ... 26-fx-rack
Last edited by re:dream on Fri May 16, 2014 11:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

Citizen
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Re: The very best method for browsing samples using Push?

Post by Citizen » Fri May 16, 2014 11:03 am

That would be great, thank you!

re:dream
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Re: The very best method for browsing samples using Push?

Post by re:dream » Fri May 16, 2014 11:04 am

OK, I put them up on audiobombs, link is in the post above

Let me know whether you find them useful. Better yet, pick them apart and make a better one yourself! 8)

Citizen
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Re: The very best method for browsing samples using Push?

Post by Citizen » Fri May 16, 2014 11:08 am

Will do,thanks mate.

I'll be sure to post them when I have an optimised rack for Push. I've been hellbent on resolving my Push workflow to make it as intuitive and integrated as Push...so I won't stop until I've built what I believe to be the ultimate rack!

8)

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