Is it possible to lock the pads.

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Sional
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Is it possible to lock the pads.

Post by Sional » Thu Jun 19, 2014 9:06 pm

So I am playing an instrument on say track one via Push's pads. I then go to my return track to make adjustments to the FX. I can no longer play the instrument while making the FX adjustments because Push is focussed on the return track. Now this is fine for the controls but the 64 pads have no function in a return track. So, is it currently possible to lock the pads to a record enabled track?

TomViolenz
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Re: Is it possible to lock the pads.

Post by TomViolenz » Thu Jun 19, 2014 9:22 pm

I don't think you can, that's just the way Push works.
And yes, this is something that bothers me too. A LOT!

It's even worse if you have another controller that also has device control. Every time you want to maneuver the other controller to a device on another track. Push follows, with the encoders AND the pads!

If anyone has a solution to this I would also be VERY interested!

Sional
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Re: Is it possible to lock the pads.

Post by Sional » Thu Jun 19, 2014 9:51 pm

I suppose it is up to Ableton to provide a solution. My current workaround is to use my keyboard. Obviously this is not satisfactory as it makes a lot of Push's real estate redundant. :(

irrelevance
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Re: Is it possible to lock the pads.

Post by irrelevance » Thu Jun 19, 2014 11:05 pm

TomViolenz wrote:I don't think you can, that's just the way Push works.
And yes, this is something that bothers me too. A LOT!

It's even worse if you have another controller that also has device control. Every time you want to maneuver the other controller to a device on another track. Push follows, with the encoders AND the pads!

If anyone has a solution to this I would also be VERY interested!

Me too!

I keep push in session mode with [Volume] selected for track control for 8 tracks and a launchpad and nocturn (with guille scrpit) for another 8 tracks. I have a padkontrol midi assigned for device select on each track and I can see nocturn update its leds when I change track. With push in session mode [Volume] it still follows selected tracks but will not change display parameters.

Valiumdupeuple
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Re: Is it possible to lock the pads.

Post by Valiumdupeuple » Fri Jun 20, 2014 12:11 am

Yep that's annoying.
A similar situation:
you're having the session grid displayed, you select a device on track A, and you're having fun tweaking some parameters.
now you just need to launch a clip on track B, while continue tweaking those nasty knobs on track A...
... well, you can't !
As soon as you'll launch your clip in track B, you'll go to the devices area of this track. You need to re-select track A.

Of course that makes sense in a way, but as often, there's room for more user options in the "user" page ! :wink:

TomViolenz
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Re: Is it possible to lock the pads.

Post by TomViolenz » Fri Jun 20, 2014 8:46 am

Valiumdupeuple wrote:Yep that's annoying.
A similar situation:
you're having the session grid displayed, you select a device on track A, and you're having fun tweaking some parameters.
now you just need to launch a clip on track B, while continue tweaking those nasty knobs on track A...
... well, you can't !
As soon as you'll launch your clip in track B, you'll go to the devices area of this track. You need to re-select track A.
Your second problem sounds like you have select on launch activated. That's not a very sensible setting when you use Push.

Another solution that should not be forgotten is that you can Lock control surfaces to devices.

If you want to do it from Pushs buttons, you can do so with PXTs Accessory mode, if you use the Track state and Track select buttons and their clyphx functionality for this. I turned this into a sort of distibution hub for my 3 controllers that have device control.
It kinda looks like this: (lower row is Track select, upper row is partially device select and partially controller lock)


Instrument//_Nk_Track_//___EQ___//___FX___//___PXT___//_Maschine_//_Nocturn__//__xxxx__

_Track1__//__Track2__//_Track3__//_Track4__//__Track5__//__Track6__//__Track7__//__Track8_

This way I can speedily distribute which controller will controll which device on what track, lock it, and then distribute the next and lock. All in a matter of seconds.

This works great and not disruptive to a live workflow, except that each time I want to use this to distribute the encoders, the pads also lose the focus, meaning I have to stop playing while I distribute and remember which track my instrument was on, so that I can return to the track.

The main functional problem from Lives perspective is that selecting a device always also selects the track it's on (for clips this can be seperated as described above). This is also true for any clyphx functions that deal with selecting devices. It seems Live does not allow it seperated. (It's the same even without a controller, just key assign a computer keyboard key to a header of a device and then change the track, you will see, hitting that key will always change to the track)
This probably made sense when controllers didn't have screens and Ableton thought, why change to a device that you can't see, but it's become not only obsolete, but a huge distraction!

I think what would also be necessary is to rework the whole blue hand approach. It was probably great for its time, but now it's just too limited. Each control surface would at least need its own INDEPENDENT blue hand!

Valiumdupeuple
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Re: Is it possible to lock the pads.

Post by Valiumdupeuple » Fri Jun 20, 2014 9:27 am

Your second problem sounds like you have select on launch activated.
Shit, you're right. I didn't thought about that ! Thanks.
I think what would also be necessary is to rework the whole blue hand approach. It was probably great for its time, but now it's just too limited. Each control surface would at least need its own INDEPENDENT blue hand!
I completely agree.

mylkoa
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Re: Is it possible to lock the pads.

Post by mylkoa » Wed Mar 11, 2015 12:45 am

TomViolenz wrote: Your second problem sounds like you have select on launch activated. That's not a very sensible setting when you use Push.
Thanks!

nightscope
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Re: Is it possible to lock the pads.

Post by nightscope » Wed Mar 11, 2015 6:05 am

TomViolenz wrote:If anyone has a solution to this I would also be VERY interested!
The Stray will be releasing his latest brainchild soonish, the DDC[Dedicated Device Control]. It's at the prelease stage at the moment so it's imminent. It allows extremely flexible custom control for up to 6 controllers with all Live's devices and also any VST/VSTi's and their parameters can be easily captured and reshuffled, arranged according to taste. The DDC has one stonking feature, amongst many others, that allows one to lock controllers to a specific plugin via an assigned button on one of your contollers. And it stays locked no matter what you're doing with Push or any other non-DDC controllers. It is fab.

http://beatwise.proboards.com/thread/20 ... e-9?page=1

TomViolenz
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Re: Is it possible to lock the pads.

Post by TomViolenz » Wed Mar 11, 2015 10:17 am

nightscope wrote:
TomViolenz wrote:If anyone has a solution to this I would also be VERY interested!
The Stray will be releasing his latest brainchild soonish, the DDC[Dedicated Device Control]. It's at the prelease stage at the moment so it's imminent. It allows extremely flexible custom control for up to 6 controllers with all Live's devices and also any VST/VSTi's and their parameters can be easily captured and reshuffled, arranged according to taste. The DDC has one stonking feature, amongst many others, that allows one to lock controllers to a specific plugin via an assigned button on one of your contollers. And it stays locked no matter what you're doing with Push or any other non-DDC controllers. It is fab.

http://beatwise.proboards.com/thread/20 ... e-9?page=1
Oh shit, I had downloaded the beta and then got side tracked and actually never did anything with it :oops:

But while it certainly sounds interesting, I don't think it can provide a solution to this problem since there is still only one blue hand, and there's nothing he can do about it. (well now that he works at Ableton, maybe he can pester the programmers to finally bring this system into the future, or better: into the present ;-)).

What you are describing sounds very much like "lock device to control surface" and that has always been there. You can even use it with the mouse by right clicking on the device header. (and clyphx/M4L can do that too of course)
But that doesn't change the fact that if you would maneuver the focus of one controller to another device all other controllers would follow along.

tedlogan
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Re: Is it possible to lock the pads.

Post by tedlogan » Wed Mar 11, 2015 11:42 am

Yes I don't like this behaviour either. I think when navigating to the Master or Return tracks and in Note mode, the pads should stay focused on the track you were on before. They serve no purpose otherwise, unless you're in Session mode.

SUG-1288

https://ableton.centercode.com/project/ ... FDEAC36608}

sonik777
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Re: Is it possible to lock the pads.

Post by sonik777 » Sat Mar 14, 2015 5:31 pm

I have a similar issue, trying to use it in conjunction with another person and APC40 MKII.

I've asked in the forums here

viewtopic.php?f=55&t=213031

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=212439

And on KVR

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 2&t=432226

With no luck :/

nightscope
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Re: Is it possible to lock the pads.

Post by nightscope » Sat Mar 28, 2015 6:18 pm

TomViolenz wrote:But while it certainly sounds interesting, I don't think it can provide a solution to this problem since there is still only one blue hand, and there's nothing he can do about it.
Incorrect. DDC has got nothing do with the "blue hand" system so Stray hasn't had to do anything about it. DDC provides for up to 6 controllers that can be independently locked however you want, whenever you want. Like having 6 "blue hands"
TomViolenz wrote:But that doesn't change the fact that if you would maneuver the focus of one controller to another device all other controllers would follow along.
Incorrect. If you change the focus of any non-DDC controllers any DDC will not follow along.

TomViolenz
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Re: Is it possible to lock the pads.

Post by TomViolenz » Sat Mar 28, 2015 8:20 pm

nightscope wrote:
TomViolenz wrote:But while it certainly sounds interesting, I don't think it can provide a solution to this problem since there is still only one blue hand, and there's nothing he can do about it.
Incorrect. DDC has got nothing do with the "blue hand" system so Stray hasn't had to do anything about it. DDC provides for up to 6 controllers that can be independently locked however you want, whenever you want. Like having 6 "blue hands"
TomViolenz wrote:But that doesn't change the fact that if you would maneuver the focus of one controller to another device all other controllers would follow along.
Incorrect. If you change the focus of any non-DDC controllers any DDC will not follow along.
If that is so than I'll happily eat crow :mrgreen:

And this is without making Midi assignments?!

I somehow can't quite wrap my head around the how yet, but I really need to look into this more 8)

nightscope
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Re: Is it possible to lock the pads.

Post by nightscope » Sat Mar 28, 2015 9:45 pm

TomViolenz wrote:If that is so than I'll happily eat crow :mrgreen:
Heh. No need for that. I'll buy you a chicken.
TomViolenz wrote:And this is without making Midi assignments?!
Well, you gotta set things up which would be absolutely no problem for you. For the controllers simply choose the ones you would like to use for DDC control. For the VST's you make templates with the DDC editor for whatever VST's you want to use. It can also be used for track controls. DDC has a little VST capture tool which grabs a VST's parameters which can then be arranged and rearranged according to taste with the DDC editor. All Live's own devices are all ready to go. You can even have controls from different plugs on the same controller as the same time.
TomViolenz wrote:I somehow can't quite wrap my head around the how yet, but I really need to look into this more 8)
Sure.

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