really?

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nemoy
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really?

Post by nemoy » Wed Jul 02, 2014 1:26 pm

Push: Why can't we assign stuff we DON'T need to stuff we actually DO need instead?
...APC-style...

I mean don't you ever tweak stuff WHILE going to the next scene?
isn't this a quite common situation?
so why shouln'd we be able to assign potis when in session mode?

There's so much stuff on this thing I literally never even touch.
And still it's there and it's forcing me to switch modes all the time
and to buy aditional controlers, even though there would be more than
enough controls on push already, but they're "hardwired" to some
insignifficant detail nobody ever needs during a live performance.

THE HELL?!!

I can't imagine how this is not an easy thing to implement.
I can't imagine how this limitation has any other effect than forcing users to do stuff the way ableton wants

come on...

TomViolenz
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Re: really?

Post by TomViolenz » Wed Jul 02, 2014 4:00 pm

I never had an APC, but I somehow have difficulty imagining that you can have partly assignable encoders and partly ones responding to the script.
Normaly it's an either/or situation.

Otherwise just use Push as a Midi controller.
For this though, I think Ableton could have went much further for making that easy! NI have shown how to do that with the Controller Editor for Maschine.

I personaly hope anyways, that they are preparing something really big ATM to enhance the Push experience, otherwise it would feel like they are actually satisfied with how it is already. And I don't think they should be yet, not by a long shot!

S4racen
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Re: really?

Post by S4racen » Wed Jul 02, 2014 8:03 pm

To me the push has become for too complicated for it's own good, i struggle to do anything with it performance wise, it's back to the APC40 or LaunchPad LaunchControl combo....

That said i've just got my hands on a Livid Base and this is quickly becoming a favourite of mine...

Cheers
D

yur2die4
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Re: really?

Post by yur2die4 » Wed Jul 02, 2014 9:17 pm

My biggest issue is the mess with automatic arming. I like Push on it's own, but it doesn't play nice with other gear. Gear which is much more usable in a live situation.

nemoy
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Re: really?

Post by nemoy » Thu Jul 03, 2014 9:42 am

@ TomViolenz: on the APC Everything is mappable. even the grid Buttons.
When you map a Dial or Button, only that one Button/dial looses it's original
function within the APC script and does what you mapped it to. The rest stays like it is.
This way you can really assign stuff you won't need in a live situation
to stuff you do need! without loosing other features or switching modes all the time.

That's what I really love about the APC. And I really want this for Push too! :)

I mean Ableton was involved with the construction of the APC, so i can't imagine
they don't know how to implement this behaviour.
It feels more like another one of those typical Ableton-"trade-in a good function for another one
they find important but nobody else really needs"-Stunts.

... They're really good at this...

@S4racen: Base is great! it's what I use now on stage, together with an APC (for Grid) and launchcontrol (for real potis)

Push could be so much more than what it is right now,
and I really hope too, that they are working on something.
I can't imagine them beeing happy with how push works now...

TomViolenz
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Re: really?

Post by TomViolenz » Thu Jul 03, 2014 10:47 am

nemoy wrote:@ TomViolenz: on the APC Everything is mappable. even the grid Buttons.
When you map a Dial or Button, only that one Button/dial looses it's original
function within the APC script and does what you mapped it to. The rest stays like it is.
This way you can really assign stuff you won't need in a live situation
to stuff you do need! without loosing other features or switching modes all the time.

That's what I really love about the APC. And I really want this for Push too! :)

I didn't know that and this sounds indeed very usefull!

v00d00ppl
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Re: really?

Post by v00d00ppl » Thu Jul 03, 2014 2:57 pm

@nemoy I really do hope push will allow you to swap one function for another. It looks like base lets you do that, right?
SSL X Desk / Apollo Twin Solo / Sherman Restyler / Ensoniq EPS Classic / Analog Keys / Handsome Audio Zulu

eyeknow
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Re: really?

Post by eyeknow » Fri Jul 04, 2014 2:00 am

nemoy wrote: Push could be so much more than what it is right now,
and I really hope too, that they are working on something.
I can't imagine them beeing happy with how push works now...
That's the thing. The last beta cycle didn't really do anything. It's a bit half baked (though I love having it)

TomViolenz
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Re: really?

Post by TomViolenz » Fri Jul 04, 2014 10:39 am

eyeknow wrote:
nemoy wrote: Push could be so much more than what it is right now,
and I really hope too, that they are working on something.
I can't imagine them beeing happy with how push works now...
That's the thing. The last beta cycle didn't really do anything. It's a bit half baked (though I love having it)
It's certainly nothing I regret having, but I wonder if I would be of the same opinion if it weren't for PXT!

And Stray is a one man company, without direct access to the coding team at Ableton, imagine what they could do with it, if they wanted to!

irrelevance
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Re: really?

Post by irrelevance » Sat Jul 05, 2014 7:16 am

TomViolenz wrote:
eyeknow wrote:
nemoy wrote: Push could be so much more than what it is right now,
and I really hope too, that they are working on something.
I can't imagine them beeing happy with how push works now...
That's the thing. The last beta cycle didn't really do anything. It's a bit half baked (though I love having it)
It's certainly nothing I regret having, but I wonder if I would be of the same opinion if it weren't for PXT!

And Stray is a one man company, without direct access to the coding team at Ableton, imagine what they could do with it, if they wanted to!
You know how it goes I'm sure. The bigger the company becomes the more inflexible it will be.

TomViolenz
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Re: really?

Post by TomViolenz » Sat Jul 05, 2014 7:33 am

irrelevance wrote:
You know how it goes I'm sure. The bigger the company becomes the more inflexible it will be.
The Push team and the coding team probably spend most of their time in meatings together in which they decide who fills out the correct forms to send to managment :x

nemoy
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Re: really?

Post by nemoy » Mon Jul 07, 2014 9:55 am

…Maybe meetings with "experts"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg

It just seems, they shifted their general focus from ableton beeing a powerful LIVE & Studio tool
towards Ableton beeing a noob tool for Bedroom producers, that just started making music and
want to have dope beats with the Push of a button. (no pun intended)

I mean if you look at the attention the pay to the whole scales thing
that's already quite a strong indicator for the target group they
make their software for.... (now)

80%-90% of people who bought push will probably never even get close to it's limitations.
for them, push is the shit. And with them beeing happy, why bother...

from a business point of view, push is a success, i guess...

TomViolenz
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Re: really?

Post by TomViolenz » Mon Jul 07, 2014 10:10 am

nemoy wrote:…Maybe meetings with "experts"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg

It just seems, they shifted their general focus from ableton beeing a powerful LIVE & Studio tool
towards Ableton beeing a noob tool for Bedroom producers, that just started making music and
want to have dope beats with the Push of a button. (no pun intended)

I mean if you look at the attention the pay to the whole scales thing
that's already quite a strong indicator for the target group they
make their software for.... (now)

80%-90% of people who bought push will probably never even get close to it's limitations.
for them, push is the shit. And with them beeing happy, why bother...

from a business point of view, push is a success, i guess...
Ever the more reason to support third party developers like nativeKontrol.

I wonder if your desire to reassign scripted knobs to Midi control things in Live could be implemented in a future version of PXT.

You should definetely inquire with Stray about this. PXT is the way better script for live situations anyways.

panten
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Re: really?

Post by panten » Mon Jul 07, 2014 10:50 am

What would be great if [Ableton] [Stray] introduced a way to switch between different 3rd party modes if you hold the USER button. That way you could activate PXT-Live and/or any user mappings you want.


Agreed, it does feel that Ableton are resting on their laurels a bit with Push; it has far greater potential.

login
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Re: really?

Post by login » Mon Jul 07, 2014 2:32 pm

I kind of agree with you but in the end I suppose they have to make choices. simplicity and ease vs complexity and high learning curve.

Overall I only wish Ableton was more open and provided scripting documentation so maybe there could be more custom scripting apart from Stray.

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