Another reality check

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eyeknow
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Another reality check

Post by eyeknow » Mon Aug 18, 2014 12:03 am

Seems to me that "delete" on push worked anytime I borked a clip recording in scene. Simply hit delete and bye bye. Now, it seems as though most of the time it doesn't work and it has to do with the track not being highlighted?

I don't understand why I'm running into stuff like this after having push for quite some time. Is it something borked in live? Did I just get lucky all those other times? Anyone have any thoughts on this?

One more question: Should I just knuckle down and get pxt/or does it help with this kinda thing? I feel like my workflow is not what it once was.

nemoy
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Re: Another reality check

Post by nemoy » Mon Aug 18, 2014 9:52 am

Ye, I have a really hard time understanding why they've come up with something
that is so strictly limited to the ONE channel selected/highlighted.
This makes push near unusable in live situations. It's like they never
even thought about playing notes/drums AND changing something on a different channel.
Or changing parameters on two different channels at the same time.
It's some reeeaaally basic shit. I just don't understand.

In most of the cases, Focus is on one thing while the vast majority of controlls
on push are useless, unless of course you stop whatever you're doing and change
mode or select another channel.
And once you're on that other channel, you can change that parameter of course,
but everything else on push is useless again! and so on and so on.

Who plays their live performances changing only stuff on one channel at a time?
This is incredibly counter-intuitive.

NoSonic822
Posts: 700
Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2013 8:38 am

Re: Another reality check

Post by NoSonic822 » Mon Aug 18, 2014 12:00 pm

can't you just look at your laptop and use your mouse??? huh? while push is on one thing, you can change something on the laptop screen using your mouse
in this guys performance he is controlling filters etc with the k2 controller
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjmb4c4nOps
nemoy wrote:Ye, I have a really hard time understanding why they've come up with something
that is so strictly limited to the ONE channel selected/highlighted.
This makes push near unusable in live situations. It's like they never
even thought about playing notes/drums AND changing something on a different channel.
Or changing parameters on two different channels at the same time.
It's some reeeaaally basic shit. I just don't understand.

In most of the cases, Focus is on one thing while the vast majority of controlls
on push are useless, unless of course you stop whatever you're doing and change
mode or select another channel.
And once you're on that other channel, you can change that parameter of course,
but everything else on push is useless again! and so on and so on.

Who plays their live performances changing only stuff on one channel at a time?
This is incredibly counter-intuitive.
Last edited by NoSonic822 on Mon Aug 18, 2014 12:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

nemoy
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Re: Another reality check

Post by nemoy » Mon Aug 18, 2014 12:22 pm

:mrgreen:

tedlogan
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Re: Another reality check

Post by tedlogan » Mon Aug 18, 2014 12:30 pm

eyeknow wrote:Seems to me that "delete" on push worked anytime I borked a clip recording in scene. Simply hit delete and bye bye. Now, it seems as though most of the time it doesn't work and it has to do with the track not being highlighted?

I don't understand why I'm running into stuff like this after having push for quite some time. Is it something borked in live? Did I just get lucky all those other times? Anyone have any thoughts on this?

One more question: Should I just knuckle down and get pxt/or does it help with this kinda thing? I feel like my workflow is not what it once was.
Hmm, DELETE works fine here, though I have not checked when not deleting from the highlighted track (as I usually delete something I've just recorded etc).

DUPLICATE does not work anymore for me in Session view though. Only works in Note Mode. Maybe it's to do with the track being highlighted like you said...either way, it's a stupid change.

About PXT - I don't know if it'll improve your workflow. I've only had it a few days now, and enjoy it, but I prefer staying in the default mode most of the time. Anything else I simply get the mouse out. :mrgreen:

All of that said, I cannot stop jamming with Push. Constantly on it these days, after coming back from a hiatus of 2 months from music, due to something incredibly idiotic I did. It really is cuntloads of fun, especially with pre-racked instruments you know you're gonna use etc. I would've killed for gear like this when I was 17.

Anyway, sorry, I'm digressing again.

EDIT: Just to not give the wrong impression - PXT is awesome, very clever and useful stuff - I've just not dived into it properly.

Valiumdupeuple
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Re: Another reality check

Post by Valiumdupeuple » Mon Aug 18, 2014 12:35 pm

It's some reeeaaally basic shit. I just don't understand.
I don't really see how it would be so easy to implement and to deal with live with only ONE Push.

nemoy
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Re: Another reality check

Post by nemoy » Mon Aug 18, 2014 12:47 pm

Inversoundzzz wrote:can't you just look at your laptop and use your mouse??? huh? while push is on one thing, you can change something on the laptop screen using your mouse
in this guys performance he is controlling filters etc with the k2 controller
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjmb4c4nOps
Whoo, ok, you were seroius about the mouse & laptop?
hmm...

looks like that point blank dude is using several other controllers along push.
that works of course.
And his setup is pretty fucking basic & boring. That works too.

nemoy
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Re: Another reality check

Post by nemoy » Mon Aug 18, 2014 12:54 pm

Valiumdupeuple wrote:I don't really see how it would be so easy to implement and to deal with live with only ONE Push.
The APC solution is straight forward for example:
Whatever control you map to something else just loses it's original functionality, While all the rest still does what the APC script does.
So you can use the Grid, The channel faders, and map differen Potis to basically whatever, wherever inside your live set.

Ableton developped the APC together with Akai, so i think this behaviour should be easy to implement.

When using Push in session mode, you could easyly map the 8 controls on top so do what you want, while still being able to navigate through your live set, record and loop clips...

Tempo & Shuffle? never use those on stage! so i'd like to be able to map them to something else.
same for many of the function buttons! the're just there, using up live set real estate, providing nothing.

Maybe to clarify: i'm strictly speaking LIVE situation here! no studio work, just Stage & performance!

nemoy
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Re: Another reality check

Post by nemoy » Mon Aug 18, 2014 1:08 pm

push is a great piece of hardware, dont get me wrong!
it has just very little (to none at all) personalising possibilities!
And that's the one thing i love about live! everybody can use it differently!
it is such a pitty this basic concept of customising your setup isn't present in the hardware.

irrelevance
Posts: 463
Joined: Tue May 20, 2008 7:31 pm

Re: Another reality check

Post by irrelevance » Mon Aug 18, 2014 1:34 pm

nemoy wrote:push is a great piece of hardware, dont get me wrong!
it has just very little (to none at all) personalising possibilities!
And that's the one thing i love about live! everybody can use it differently!
it is such a pitty this basic concept of customising your setup isn't present in the hardware.
I do hope there's something coming to address this and the live performance quirks. However I do remember waiting years before yamaha finally decided to implement x0x style sequencing in what would be the very last firmware update released for the rs7000, even though it seemed so obvious a thing for the unit. Software has mad me so impatient :lol: :oops:

NoSonic822
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Re: Another reality check

Post by NoSonic822 » Mon Aug 18, 2014 3:30 pm

ummmm i dont have....push...yet...im deciding whether to buy it or not....it seems obvious to buy it.....but you guys always make it sound like a big piece of shit on these ableton forums...youre saying now that you cant map the knobs to whatever you want? what? how is that? you cant midi map the knobs to whatever parameter you want? huh? so i have to buy an akai apc to map knobs? huh? i have a virus hardsynth, i can map its knobs to anything.....its from 2002! i cant map to things with push whioch supposed to be teh most uptodate made for ableton controller? huh? why are you saying this/
nemoy wrote:
Inversoundzzz wrote:can't you just look at your laptop and use your mouse??? huh? while push is on one thing, you can change something on the laptop screen using your mouse
in this guys performance he is controlling filters etc with the k2 controller
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjmb4c4nOps
Whoo, ok, you were seroius about the mouse & laptop?
hmm...

looks like that point blank dude is using several other controllers along push.
that works of course.
And his setup is pretty fucking basic & boring. That works too.

eyeknow
Posts: 5822
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2005 6:16 am

Re: Another reality check

Post by eyeknow » Mon Aug 18, 2014 3:40 pm

Er, wha?

I don't think anybody is saying it's a POS. We're just upset about certain workflow issues and they seem to be ignoring push in the last few betas. If you don't have it yet, you don't understand what we are saying.

I use it everyday. I just feel like it worked better a couple of versions ago and wanted to do a reality check to see if others have had the same feeling.

tedlogan
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Re: Another reality check

Post by tedlogan » Mon Aug 18, 2014 4:01 pm

Inversoundzzz wrote:ummmm i dont have....push...yet...im deciding whether to buy it or not....it seems obvious to buy it.....but you guys always make it sound like a big piece of shit on these ableton forums...youre saying now that you cant map the knobs to whatever you want? what? how is that? you cant midi map the knobs to whatever parameter you want? huh? so i have to buy an akai apc to map knobs? huh? i have a virus hardsynth, i can map its knobs to anything.....its from 2002! i cant map to things with push whioch supposed to be teh most uptodate made for ableton controller? huh? why are you saying this/
It's definitely not a POS. It's the best controller I've ever had by miles. It's not perfect, but what is? Using Live without it is horrible for me. I've tried a few times just to see what it used to be like pre-Push. Then I remember why I stopped making music for so many years prior to buying Push - I hated working mainly with mouse and keyboard + MIDI keyboard.

About MIDI mapping - I've not tried to map anything as the default state Push is in works great for me (apart from the lack of record to arrangement and a few other small things). I believe you can only map Push's buttons and encoders in USER mode.

login
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Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2011 12:41 am

Re: Another reality check

Post by login » Mon Aug 18, 2014 4:05 pm

Yep not hard mapping in default mode can be an issue if Push is your only controller.

MAybe if just one button could lock the encoders to the current device or lock the note mode to the current track so you could move around while keeping control would be nice.

NoSonic822
Posts: 700
Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2013 8:38 am

Re: Another reality check

Post by NoSonic822 » Mon Aug 18, 2014 5:18 pm

this is better than push then? because of the mapping ability, yea?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature= ... L110eVnDQ
tedlogan wrote:
Inversoundzzz wrote:ummmm i dont have....push...yet...im deciding whether to buy it or not....it seems obvious to buy it.....but you guys always make it sound like a big piece of shit on these ableton forums...youre saying now that you cant map the knobs to whatever you want? what? how is that? you cant midi map the knobs to whatever parameter you want? huh? so i have to buy an akai apc to map knobs? huh? i have a virus hardsynth, i can map its knobs to anything.....its from 2002! i cant map to things with push whioch supposed to be teh most uptodate made for ableton controller? huh? why are you saying this/
It's definitely not a POS. It's the best controller I've ever had by miles. It's not perfect, but what is? Using Live without it is horrible for me. I've tried a few times just to see what it used to be like pre-Push. Then I remember why I stopped making music for so many years prior to buying Push - I hated working mainly with mouse and keyboard + MIDI keyboard.

About MIDI mapping - I've not tried to map anything as the default state Push is in works great for me (apart from the lack of record to arrangement and a few other small things). I believe you can only map Push's buttons and encoders in USER mode.

Locked