Another reality check

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Re: Another reality check

Post by login » Mon Aug 18, 2014 6:36 pm

[quote="Inversoundzzz"]this is better than push then? because of the mapping ability, yea?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature= ... L110eVnDQ

But then: No other controller offers Push functionality.

Really the composing side of Push: the keyboard with sensitive pads, the sequencer, the display, all that is what makes Push way better than the competition. The lack of hardmap is annoying yes, but I can happily live with out it for all the other great features.

Also being realistic Push is not going to be the end of it all controllers, all of them have shortcomings, there is not a perfect one there is what suits you and what not.

So making a pros and cons list may help you decide, but for me the pros of push are way too many to exchange it to the other controllers, none of which improve the composing workflow.

re:dream
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Re: Another reality check

Post by re:dream » Mon Aug 18, 2014 6:38 pm

edit :oops:
Last edited by re:dream on Mon Aug 18, 2014 6:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

nemoy
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Re: Another reality check

Post by nemoy » Mon Aug 18, 2014 6:47 pm

tedlogan wrote: About MIDI mapping - I've not tried to map anything as the default state Push is in works great for me
And That's exactly the point!
They force you into using a workflow they kind of think is the one and only way to go.
You'll have to use every button for exactly what they imagined them to be useful.
This might work for your average non-inspired deep house turning stems on and off typo of performance,
or your super artsy drone happening, where you need to controll 2 parameters during a 90 minutes set.
But as soon as you try to make something else, most of the default functions become useless when
performing live on stage, thats why we need some possibilities of customising certain mappings....

The only way to map anything on push right now is to do this in user mode.
But that mode disables every other functionality on push for as long you're in user mode.
So you will just not be able to change a custom mapped parameter and jump to another scene via scene launch for example.

Push forces you to switch modes all the time, to always make sure the right channel is selected...
and the Footswitches aren't mappable either. I mean come on! Looper? how are we supposed to control
that while playing an instrument that needs 2 hands to play for example?

I so want to sell that thing; but then again, i can't, becaus I still hope for a software update (finally)
that changes things a bit...

am i bitter? ...well yes...

TomViolenz
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Re: Another reality check

Post by TomViolenz » Mon Aug 18, 2014 6:58 pm

Will it ever be possible to voice criticism of a device without throwing every music style one doesn't understand under the bus with it?!

"Yeah, that thing that I don't like about controller x-y-z, that must be something that these no talent hacks from that artform I don't like use all the time..." :roll:

re:dream
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Re: Another reality check

Post by re:dream » Mon Aug 18, 2014 7:07 pm

I find the biggest block in my musical creativity is me.

I envy these people who can blame the software or the hard ware...

nemoy
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Re: Another reality check

Post by nemoy » Mon Aug 18, 2014 7:17 pm

nono, this wasnt a comment on style...

push is marketed to reach as big of an audience possible;
and as we all know, people who don't know their shit are the biggest market out there!
so they just needet to aim at Musicians that are not so much into actually doing something...
it feels like push and ableton dropped their standarts in order to sell more units.
wich seems to be perfectly fine in capitalism. it's jsut a pitty.

@ Tomviolenz
The main message here was: "uninspired" and "two parameters for 90 minutes";
not about deep house or drone, or any other style.. just examples... :)
Last edited by nemoy on Mon Aug 18, 2014 7:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Another reality check

Post by nemoy » Mon Aug 18, 2014 7:30 pm

re:dream wrote:I find the biggest block in my musical creativity is me.

I envy these people who can blame the software or the hard ware...
...there's no lack of creativity here; especially not hardware induced! :)

Push was announced as the one in all controller solution for ableton live performances.
I spent a lot of money on push, the one in all solution for ableton live performances.
turns out the only thing you can't really do with it are ableton live performances.

So i'm just a bit pissed... :)
And i want the abes to do something!
I was hoping there are other people out there, that aren't exactly happy with push's
way of forcing you to use one specific workflow.
but apparently everybody (or a lot of people) are absolutely fine with the limitations
to their workflow push introduced...
So it almost seems like everybody (or a lot of people) aren't actually in need of
some (to me) very basic functions.

The ableton marketing was right after all, apparently...
and i'm wrong...

nemoy
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Re: Another reality check

Post by nemoy » Mon Aug 18, 2014 7:32 pm

:D peace :D

Valiumdupeuple
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Re: Another reality check

Post by Valiumdupeuple » Mon Aug 18, 2014 7:35 pm

Btw, as very often, M4L is your friend...

nemoy
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Re: Another reality check

Post by nemoy » Mon Aug 18, 2014 7:38 pm

Valiumdupeuple wrote:Btw, as very often, M4L is your friend...
true dat

tedlogan
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Re: Another reality check

Post by tedlogan » Mon Aug 18, 2014 7:44 pm

nemoy wrote:
tedlogan wrote: About MIDI mapping - I've not tried to map anything as the default state Push is in works great for me
And That's exactly the point!
They force you into using a workflow they kind of think is the one and only way to go.
You'll have to use every button for exactly what they imagined them to be useful.
This might work for your average non-inspired deep house turning stems on and off typo of performance,
or your super artsy drone happening, where you need to controll 2 parameters during a 90 minutes set.
But as soon as you try to make something else, most of the default functions become useless when
performing live on stage, thats why we need some possibilities of customising certain mappings....

The only way to map anything on push right now is to do this in user mode.
But that mode disables every other functionality on push for as long you're in user mode.
So you will just not be able to change a custom mapped parameter and jump to another scene via scene launch for example.

Push forces you to switch modes all the time, to always make sure the right channel is selected...
and the Footswitches aren't mappable either. I mean come on! Looper? how are we supposed to control
that while playing an instrument that needs 2 hands to play for example?

I so want to sell that thing; but then again, i can't, becaus I still hope for a software update (finally)
that changes things a bit...

am i bitter? ...well yes...
Yep yep, I understand. I'm just lucky that it's default state works great for me. I do not make deep house or any related genres. I don't feel forced into any workflow at all. Push is just another tool for me to express myself, along with my electric guitar, my Pod HD, and my bass guitar, and a mic.

I get what you're saying concerning the live situation though, that's a whole different story, and the lack of mapping outside of user mode must suck. Especially the footswitches not being mappable - wtf? I was actually thinking of adding a Line 6 floorboard mkii to round off my current setup, which would operate via USB, and fully mappable. The other day I was jamming from early morning til late night, and did think at some points that I need more hands.

Anyway, I'm not disagreeing with you at all - I just don't perform live. I just operate Live with Push, and love it. When Push can't do something, I switch to what can. At the end of the day I get the music I want to make recorded through an enjoyable manner.
Last edited by tedlogan on Mon Aug 18, 2014 8:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

tedlogan
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Re: Another reality check

Post by tedlogan » Mon Aug 18, 2014 7:48 pm

Inversoundzzz wrote:this is better than push then? because of the mapping ability, yea?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature= ... L110eVnDQ
tedlogan wrote:
Inversoundzzz wrote:ummmm i dont have....push...yet...im deciding whether to buy it or not....it seems obvious to buy it.....but you guys always make it sound like a big piece of shit on these ableton forums...youre saying now that you cant map the knobs to whatever you want? what? how is that? you cant midi map the knobs to whatever parameter you want? huh? so i have to buy an akai apc to map knobs? huh? i have a virus hardsynth, i can map its knobs to anything.....its from 2002! i cant map to things with push whioch supposed to be teh most uptodate made for ableton controller? huh? why are you saying this/
It's definitely not a POS. It's the best controller I've ever had by miles. It's not perfect, but what is? Using Live without it is horrible for me. I've tried a few times just to see what it used to be like pre-Push. Then I remember why I stopped making music for so many years prior to buying Push - I hated working mainly with mouse and keyboard + MIDI keyboard.

About MIDI mapping - I've not tried to map anything as the default state Push is in works great for me (apart from the lack of record to arrangement and a few other small things). I believe you can only map Push's buttons and encoders in USER mode.
I think you might be misunderstanding me, or you've quoted the wrong guy. I never said anything was better than anything else. I merely mentioned you have to custom map Push in user mode. I also said I really really like Push (indirectly). Finally, no way, in my opinion, is the APC40 1 or MKII better than Push. I have the APC40. It just sits there. Sometimes I turn it on just to have more green lights moving in my little studio area.

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Re: Another reality check

Post by login » Mon Aug 18, 2014 7:51 pm

nemoy wrote:
Push was announced as the one in all controller solution for ableton live performances.
I spent a lot of money on push, the one in all solution for ableton live performances.
turns out the only thing you can't really do with it are ableton live performances.
No, no and no.

Push is marketed as the ultimate producing tool.

"Push is a new instrument that solves an old problem: how to make a song from scratch. With hands-on control of melody and harmony, beats, sounds, and song structure, Push puts the fundamental elements of music making at your fingertips - and it fits in a backpack alongside your laptop. "

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Re: Another reality check

Post by login » Mon Aug 18, 2014 7:59 pm

nemoy wrote: So i'm just a bit pissed... :)
And i want the abes to do something!
I was hoping there are other people out there, that aren't exactly happy with push's
way of forcing you to use one specific workflow.
but apparently everybody (or a lot of people) are absolutely fine with the limitations
to their workflow push introduced...
So it almost seems like everybody (or a lot of people) aren't actually in need of
some (to me) very basic functions.

The ableton marketing was right after all, apparently...
and i'm wrong...
Well first then you didn't research the product well, all it's functionality is in videos and the manual. Asuming it does something that is not stated is unrealistic.

All music software and gadgets impose limitations, you learn to live with them or pass on to the next thing. Hardware imposed even more limitations.

I really don't understand complaning about this lacking 100 more functions, you knew it was lacking them so why you went out and bought it?

I will also love some more features, lack of drum rack mixer control drives me nuts, but the way you complain is as it ABleton had lied to you, which is far from truth.

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Re: Another reality check

Post by eyeknow » Mon Aug 18, 2014 10:26 pm

Egads.

Well. I don't know how being concerned over something somehow translates to "blaming the tools"

:roll:

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