Push Update , live 9.2, is that it? After 2 years?

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empathy1
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Re: Push Update , live 9.2, is that it? After 2 years?

Post by empathy1 » Thu Feb 26, 2015 3:32 pm

I feel that perhaps since the Push is capable of so much, their people on development are probably just trying to better assess what updates get priority in regards to efficiency and practicality. It is not so much, yeah, after two years, but maybe this is just the slow start of some really cool changes.

All in all, I still love the damn thing.

RDiiO
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Re: Push Update , live 9.2, is that it? After 2 years?

Post by RDiiO » Thu Feb 26, 2015 3:33 pm

I dunno why, but the eternal optimist in me also has a feeling that this will be true.[/quote]

Judging by the last two years my expectations for the future development of Push are limited same goes for Live. While I'm not a fan of the Bigwig GUI it has introduced some features that are much needed in Live and you would think the relationship between Akai and Ableton for Push would have had some kind of benefit for development but it hasn't and these days I've used my MPC Renaissance over Push with Akai's new 1.8 update features like live slicing and chord progressions, not comparing the two but I can't understand why Ableton didn't expand on Push with the same type of features when some of the main focuses of Push is drum racks, step sequencing and the scales mode. They marketed Push as a revolutionary product but developed it further with mediocre updates, just hope they take advantage of what the product can be.[/quote]

I do hope so too.

I think Push overall is very good, and does mainly what I expected it to since launch. The core product is great.

-but-

They are certainly taking very long to roll in the updates. Significant ones, for me, the last two years:

Modwheel
Note step sequencer
Delete+shift - reset parameter
Shift+encoder - fine tuning

...two years for just that (and minor bugfixes), while there are so many good suggestions and wishlists out there. It is their baby, and they do not seem keen to give it enough nourishment to grow.

My recent optimism stems from the knowledge that Stray is now working with them, and that three updates I really wanted appeared shortly after his hiring, amongst them the modwheel.[/quote]

Exactly and that's a issue they pushed it as this groundbreaking future of music production instrument but forgot products are only as good as the development behind them. They have become tooo comfortable with all the success and stopped pushing the envelope, i'm a long time user of ableton and I never thought I would see the day when one of the most creative out of the box platforms for music software would develop on a subpar level....I hope they are actively listening

TomViolenz
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Re: Push Update , live 9.2, is that it? After 2 years?

Post by TomViolenz » Thu Feb 26, 2015 3:33 pm

tedlogan wrote: Delete+shift - reset parameter
Shift+encoder - fine tuning
you could have had that for free 1.5 years ago with Strays Push mods, which also worked in the regular script.

In fact all of the stuff in this update was stuff directly taken from previous efforts of Stray. And all but the mod wheel, which was/is in PXT were free to boot.

Keep that in mind before we herald a new age of Push development.

I for one will be severely disappointed if the collaboration with Stray just means that stuff from PXT gets ported to the regular script. I already own PXT, it's great. Now please Ableton, show us what you can do! :x

RDiiO
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Joined: Fri Apr 04, 2014 7:39 pm

Re: Push Update , live 9.2, is that it? After 2 years?

Post by RDiiO » Thu Feb 26, 2015 3:40 pm

TomViolenz wrote:
tedlogan wrote: Delete+shift - reset parameter
Shift+encoder - fine tuning
you could have had that for free 1.5 years ago with Strays Push mods, which also worked in the regular script.

In fact all of the stuff in this update was stuff directly taken from previous efforts of Stray. And all but the mod wheel, which was/is in PXT were free to boot.

Keep that in mind before we herald a new age of Push development.

I for one will be severely disappointed if the collaboration with Stray just means that stuff from PXT gets ported to the regular script. I already own PXT, it's great. Now please Ableton, show us what you can do! :x
1000% agree and I believe thats what is about to happen all of the PXT-Live ported over in the next few updates which is weak I personally don't see a new age of Push development coming zero faith based on the last two years

ash1
Posts: 195
Joined: Mon Oct 09, 2006 9:11 am

Re: Push Update , live 9.2, is that it? After 2 years?

Post by ash1 » Thu Feb 26, 2015 3:50 pm

stop all the complaining and just be happy we are getting any updates with push
were in the manual does it say we will develop and give you a life time of updates it doesnt
they could easily turn round and say thats your lot
all you people do is moan moan moan no matter what updates come
for goodness sake be more positive and dont forget about making music thats the bottom line there is more than enough with ableton and push to do that 8O

tedlogan
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Re: Push Update , live 9.2, is that it? After 2 years?

Post by tedlogan » Thu Feb 26, 2015 4:01 pm

TomViolenz wrote:
tedlogan wrote: Delete+shift - reset parameter
Shift+encoder - fine tuning
you could have had that for free 1.5 years ago with Strays Push mods, which also worked in the regular script.

In fact all of the stuff in this update was stuff directly taken from previous efforts of Stray. And all but the mod wheel, which was/is in PXT were free to boot.

Keep that in mind before we herald a new age of Push development.

I for one will be severely disappointed if the collaboration with Stray just means that stuff from PXT gets ported to the regular script. I already own PXT, it's great. Now please Ableton, show us what you can do! :x
I did have those free push mods, but lost track of them with updates etc - I am happy this is native now and they're actually implementing this stuff. The modwheel in PXT (which I have also) is useless to me (unless I missed the note-grid layout in PXT). Either way,I don't want to switch to User mode to use it. I like the normal mode just fine.

The only update I really want now, like I mention over and over like a broken record, is VST configuration (bank and parameter renaming and organising). EDIT: as well as being able to put PLACES at the top of Push's browser. And clip(s) loading if you hold down a matrix pad. And more note step sequencer options. So actually more than I thought hehe. But mainly the first wish.

Push is more than capable for very quickly making music and tweaking it, bar some niggles. I understand some people have specific needs that are not addressed, but luckily for me, mine are for the main part.

TheDZA
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Re: Push Update , live 9.2, is that it? After 2 years?

Post by TheDZA » Thu Feb 26, 2015 4:34 pm

Maybe they're holding on to new features for Push 2

tedlogan
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Re: Push Update , live 9.2, is that it? After 2 years?

Post by tedlogan » Thu Feb 26, 2015 4:55 pm

Could be, could be, and that would be very disappointing.


Here is exactly what I still want from Push (quoted from Beta site suggestions):

If you like any of these, please vote for them.


VST configuration

When configuring a VST, currently it simply places each parameter in banks of 8, in the order that you've selected them. You can also drag them about to re-order.

I would like to properly organize these banks: name them, have less than 8 parameters per bank if desired. I would like to rename the parameters too. I think this is very important to have.

Many (if not most) Push users also use VSTs. Controlling them from Push would make this controller so much more attractive and useful, and above all, enjoyable.

I've recently been controlling u-he Hive with Push, in neatly organised banks, for example. It would be amazing if these banks would state "OSC1"; "OSC2", "ENV1", "LFO1" etc instead of just "Bank1", "Bank2" and so on, with relabeled parameters.

A dedicated pop-up Configure panel, like Sampler's Zone editor, would be awesome. It could have cells representing banks of 8 subcells, in which you can drag parameters into, similar to drumracks. Here you can rename them, rename the bank, and perhaps even specify ranges for parameters, though not that important.

Even though you can only have 128 parameters mapped, more than 16 banks of 8 should still be possible (like with LIve's native custom devices mappings where you can have seemingly infinite banks) for alternate bank layouts. Example, one bank will have ADSR controls alongside say, velocity, trigger etc, and another bank would also have the same ADSR controls alongside another envelope's ADSR, so you can choose which bank to use for different workflows.

SUG-1013 https://ableton.centercode.com/project/ ... 85BD433562


Moving/copying clips on Push

Hold down the clip you want to move/copy, and a menu appears just like if you hold down "Add Track" that could have options like "copy", "move", and "load" (more on "load" below). You make your selection, and then you press the target pad, whether it be empty or occupied. The clip is copied or moved. For a block of clips it could be the same, except you hold down the first and then select the last clip in the block. Choose copy or move, then the target pad. The block of clips is copied or moved.

Alternative method

Let's say again that you want to move a whole section of clips up or down within a track. If you hold down the amber track selection button, you can then select a section of clips similar to how you select loops in PXT-Live: you select the first clip of the section, it gets highlighted, then you select the last clip. A block of clips will be highlighted or flashing, and then the encoder above the track selection button (which you're still holding down) would enable scrolling up/down of this block of clips. I prefer the other method though.


Clip loading/previewing

Maybe one can load a clip when holding down ADD TRACK. At the moment when you do, the choices are AUDIO, MIDI or RETURN. Just add another choice - CLIP. Then you’d choose CLIP, and the Push browser would open your clips directory. Now you can browse through your clips and also preview them. Upon your selection, a new track would be created housing your clip along with all its racks/instruments/devices/VSTs.

AND/OR:

You hold down an empty (or occupied!) clip pad, and once again the menu similar to the "Add Track" button being held down appears. Instead of choosing "copy" or "move", you pick "load". If you select this, the Push browser would appear for your clips and you can let go of holding down the pad. Clip prelisten is enabled as you browse through them, although this can be disabled.

SUG-1028 includes all of the above. Not sure why anyone would NOT want any of this. https://ableton.centercode.com/project/ ... 85BD433562 link prob won't work


Loading sets from Push


You hold down ADD TRACK. The options at the moment are:

AUDIO
MIDI
RETURN
[CLIP] ....like in another suggestion

If possible, maybe add as another option:

SET

Upon pressing you'd simply go to the browser on Push just like when browsing for devices.

Not essential, but would be nice to have.

SUG-1061 https://ableton.centercode.com/project/ ... 85BD433562


Push note Sequencer Improvements

Would like to:

Use push arrow keys to scroll up/down, as the touch strip can be too sensitive.
Hear the notes as I enter them - it’s annoying to guess sometimes and delete/replace notes. Perhaps SELECT+pad will play the note as you enter them, or vice versa, or have the behaviour set when holding down USER.
Transpose a sequence up/down by octave amounts. You can currently simply use the Pitch MIDI effect, but would still be slightly more convenient.
Nudge/move all notes to the left/right/up/down with an encoder.

Also, lots of unused space on the screen when holding pads to choose either Note or Automate.
Maybe options like

Halve
Double
Invert all notes
Reverse
FOLD (exactly the same as in MIDI clips - seeing only the notes being used - suggested by electroandy)

SUG-1029 https://ableton.centercode.com/project/ ... 85BD433562

and finally, having PLACES show up first on the browser.


There are other minor things that would be nice, like more drumrack channel controls, more MIDI clip controls/ routings etc.
But the rest, above, would make Push almost perfect for me. I would like to know why people would NOT want of these improvements.

login
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Re: Push Update , live 9.2, is that it? After 2 years?

Post by login » Thu Feb 26, 2015 5:15 pm

My biggest request for Push is control over the Drum rack mixer (volume, sends). I found quite strange nobody misses this, nobody mixes their drums anymore?

PXT has it but using the beta so much I have got tired of reinstalling, same for ubermap.

As for VST's my main problem is that Live doesnt remeber how you configured vst's parameters in "configure" view, if it did I could do it once and forget about it. I know it can b done with racks but I hate having to go inside the rack for selecting the instrument after chaging track focus.

tedlogan
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Re: Push Update , live 9.2, is that it? After 2 years?

Post by tedlogan » Thu Feb 26, 2015 5:20 pm

login wrote:My biggest request for Push is control over the Drum rack mixer (volume, sends). I found quite strange nobody misses this, nobody mixes their drums anymore?

PXT has it but using the beta so much I have got tired of reinstalling, same for ubermap.

As for VST's my main problem is that Live doesnt remeber how you configured vst's parameters in "configure" view, if it did I could do it once and forget about it. I know it can b done with racks but I hate having to go inside the rack for selecting the instrument after chaging track focus.
I do actually need drumrack sends control from Push as well, which is only in PXT (which I don't want to use if I can help it!).

tom_d
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Re: Push Update , live 9.2, is that it? After 2 years?

Post by tom_d » Fri Feb 27, 2015 11:48 am

tedlogan wrote: A dedicated pop-up Configure panel, like Sampler's Zone editor, would be awesome. It could have cells representing banks of 8 subcells, in which you can drag parameters into, similar to drumracks. Here you can rename them, rename the bank, and perhaps even specify ranges for parameters, though not that important.

Even though you can only have 128 parameters mapped, more than 16 banks of 8 should still be possible (like with LIve's native custom devices mappings where you can have seemingly infinite banks) for alternate bank layouts. Example, one bank will have ADSR controls alongside say, velocity, trigger etc, and another bank would also have the same ADSR controls alongside another envelope's ADSR, so you can choose which bank to use for different workflows.
You read my mind ;) although for Ubermap the editor will have to be outside Ableton. Dunno if Ableton will beat me to it though, I sort of hope so!
Ubermap: simple, free bank and parameter remapping for AudioUnit and VST devices for Push and Push 2: http://ubermap.live

tedlogan
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Re: Push Update , live 9.2, is that it? After 2 years?

Post by tedlogan » Fri Feb 27, 2015 1:30 pm

tom_d wrote:
tedlogan wrote: A dedicated pop-up Configure panel, like Sampler's Zone editor, would be awesome. It could have cells representing banks of 8 subcells, in which you can drag parameters into, similar to drumracks. Here you can rename them, rename the bank, and perhaps even specify ranges for parameters, though not that important.

Even though you can only have 128 parameters mapped, more than 16 banks of 8 should still be possible (like with LIve's native custom devices mappings where you can have seemingly infinite banks) for alternate bank layouts. Example, one bank will have ADSR controls alongside say, velocity, trigger etc, and another bank would also have the same ADSR controls alongside another envelope's ADSR, so you can choose which bank to use for different workflows.
You read my mind ;) although for Ubermap the editor will have to be outside Ableton. Dunno if Ableton will beat me to it though, I sort of hope so!
:D

I wish I can use your fine Ubermap btw (and thanks for all the work you put in to it),but as I'm on Windows and it's Alpha, problems are to be expected for some. Bricked my Push on 9.1.4beta, reinstalling the Beta did not fix it. Fortunately my release version was still fine. So I'm hesitant to try it now on 9.2.

I'm really enjoying tweaking VSTs on Push these days while playing the padboard, so I hope Ableton update to include this much-needed organisational feature.


lovelight
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Re: Push Update , live 9.2, is that it? After 2 years?

Post by lovelight » Fri Feb 27, 2015 1:55 pm

please no programming , im sure you all are in for python and so on, i want my push with live, without your great stuff..real firmware update!

Willyum
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Re: Push Update , live 9.2, is that it? After 2 years?

Post by Willyum » Fri Feb 27, 2015 5:20 pm

My 2 cents... As a person who is a big fan of Strays work, these features are not new to me.... BUT knowing usually less than half (probably closer to 1/4) of a products user base actually hangs out on the forums to learn the hacks (scripts)... Means possibly up to 75% of the Live user base is now able to enjoy the features we take for granted!

In addition, I have always had fears that Great script writers would migrate to other DAWs or just stop creating/updating for personal reasons, then I would have to choose to either stay stuck with the last version that functions or move on without the scripts that I am used to using.
So I am happy to see that some of the 'Basic' workflow-functionality of PXT is now going to be native. Yes there are a lot more things I would like to see from PXT as native controls (see what I did there) but I would be satisfied with workflow features native and specialty features still part of third party scripts (key word 'satisfied'... I would love for Ableton buy Strays scripts outright and make them all native instead of just using Stray as a code writer (which I think many people are forgetting... Abes did not buy-out nativeKONTROL, they just hired Stray as a 'code'er.... from how I understood it...)

Also, I think many people are forgetting, Apc40, Launchpad and another controller were ACTUALLY the first Ableton Branded controllers... And its been many YEARs that those haven't had any updates at all... So I am very happy to see the tides are starting to change and look forward to see what else may be coming.

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