Beyond Session view - uses for Push in workflow?

[Citizen]

Just wondering how much a part of peoples workflow Push is AFTER the generation of the initial idea?

I find myself using the mouse SO MUCH after that point that it almost seems ridiculous to have the unit infront of me for the arrangement and mix stage of the process.

Is there something I am missing here?

[Tarekith]

More or less how I work too. I never looked at it as a general purpose controller though, so I never really expected it to do much beyond the initial sketch aspect. For that it's awesome though.

[Citizen]

More or less how I work too. I never looked at it as a general purpose controller though, so I never really expected it to do much beyond the initial sketch aspect. For that it's awesome though.

Agreed.

I'm still working out all of the ins and outs of optimising it for integration with my own VSTs and methods. There is still a great deal of workarounds and tricks that one needs to know to get the most out of Push.

Do you have any recommendations for optimising the Push workflow Tarekith?

I've installed some of the AudioModder VST Bridges for Arturia and Maschine, but I have a long way to go in terms of racking up some of my most used tools for easy browsing and mouse less workflow with Push.

Any tips appreciated!

[tedlogan]

For Push, I find the following works well for me:

Using the Configure panel to create a default template for each VST's parameters
Using these templates and racking up all my patches/instruments and organising them all together in folders like bass, leads, pads etc, with no separation between different VSTs, only organised by sound-type (although I do have an abbreviation for each VST as a prefix: Bz=Bazille; Z2=Zebra; Sn=Satin; Hv=Hive; Gr=Granulator II. Why not just a single letter? Because, in the unlikely event that I acquire another synth also starting with say, "B", I'd have to rename the whole lot)
Doing the same for some audio racks
Creating shortcuts in Places to point to where you store Drumracks, Instrument racks, Audio racks
Default set template with 2 of my most-used VST synths loaded, a general drumrack, Returns etc
Default MIDI tracks loaded with: empty instrument rack (so that if you press BROWSE you're pointed towards your own racks straight away), EQ8, Glue, Satin
Default audio tracks with the same
Installing the Push community script to access all of Live's devices' parameters

A lot of prep work, but you'll end up with a focused library that is your own, with hopefully no bloat - ie 1000s of patches/instruments that you'll never use.

[Citizen]

Ted Logan – thank you – you are a godsend!

Some of your points echo Ill Gates methodology re. library organisation, which I am yet to fully implement. I really like the VST prefix idea, too!

I don't suppose you would be as kind as to provide a screen grab of how you organise your folders by any chance – as this one of the areas I really need to spend some time on!

About how long did it take to set al that up – I'm thinking thats at least a weekend of work, yes? (but totally worth it!)

[tedlogan]

hehe, no worries.

I can't give you a screenshot atm as I'm at work.

The only thing that takes up a lot of time is the initial racking of all your instruments/patches. Once that's done, I rack new patches as I create them, which takes no time at all.

I spent a fair bit of time experimenting with different configured templates for each VST - you only have 16 banks of 8 parameters - 128 - to work with. I highly recommend getting this exactly right before racking up all your patches, because if you change your mind later, you'd need to re-save all those presets to conform to the new template. With Hive it was very easy, although I'm still unsure about my decision to free up 2 banks that were being used by the Expression lane's sequencer to make room for more FX controls. I figured I use the latter slightly more often. With Zebra - not so easy. Anyway, that's a whole other topic.

Folder structure:

Amongst the default folders in PLACES, I have 4 shortcuts I made that's my main focus: CLIPS, AUDIO RACKS, DRUM RACKS, INSTRUMENT RACKS

Here is my folder structure, roughly, from memory:

CLIPS: (still a bit of a mess - here I store from simple loops I like to multitrack ideas that don't yet warrant being saved as a set on their own - I often drag ideas from here to other sets to see what happens, as people do)
BASSLINES
DRUMLOOPS - ACOUSTIC
DRUMLOOPS - ELECTRONIC
DRUMLOOPS - TRIBAL
IDEAS (multitrack rough sketches as mentioned above)
MELODIES
VOCALS

DRUM RACKS - total mess still as well. a few variations of 128 racks of ludicrous impractical size - as in 128 cells each willed with a sampler housing different samples to choose via the chain selector - I really need to sort this out asap. I won't bother listing the clutter in here.

INSTRUMENT RACKS
ARPS
ARPS - EXPERIMENTAL
BASS
FX
INITIALISE (a rack for each VST in their Initialise state)
LEADS
PADS
PERCUSSION (drumloops made within Hive, Zebra etc, played via holding down a single MIDI note as opposed to drum racks)
PLUCKED (mostly pseudo-ethnic instruments made with Zebra's Comb filters and Hive, etc)
SEQUENCES - PRETTY (I love working with sequences programmed within the VST itself)
SEQUENCES - MELANCHOLIC
SEQUENCES - FUCKED/SPASM CITY
SEQUENCES - AGGRESSIVE
SEQUENCES - GROOVY
STRINGS
TEXTURES (soundscapes)
WINDS & BRASS

there's some more specialised folders I cannot remember now, but I'm sure you get the idea

AUDIO RACKS
CHORUS (all sorts of combinations of racks - from Live's Chorus to u-he's Satin)
COMPRESSION (Live's compressor, but strongly thinking of adding u-he's Presswerk...real creative compressor)
DELAYS (same as above)
DISTORTION (Saturator, Dynamic Tube, Amp and Satin racks)
EQ (some EQ8 and AutoFilter variations)
REVERB (Convolution Reverb Pro racks)
VOCAL (A few vocal channel strips)

probably missing a few here too, but once again, you get the idea.

That's it really - 4 main folders to house everything I need, and I add subfolders and new racks as required. Pretty standard stuff I'd imagine, but it works great and is quick to retrieve anything I need. because my midi default track has an empty instrument rack, when you Browse you're pointed to your own custom directories straight away instead of having to browse down 2 or three menus through Live's default library.
Individual patches are usually named the very first thing that pops into my head when saving - I easily remember the sound of patches with unique names like this, like " Bz Kraug", or " Hv Garden Dew", or "Z2 Shregger", or "Gr Empty streets" and so on. Variations of each would be "Bz Kraug A"; "Bz Kraug B": "Bz Kraug C" etc.

Hope this helps.

[Citizen]

Oh, wow - thank you, thank you, thank you!

I will take a good look at all of that info tomorrow, and start strategizing my own library organisation!

[tedlogan]

Don't tell anyone - but I secretly enjoy organising my library when I'm not in the mood to jam or record.

I've just started doing what some others have mentioned - putting multiple instances of the same VST in a single rack, but in my case only for patches that have variations.

To be more clear - if I have 4 versions of patch "Fat Wasp Waltz", a bassy buzzing swing arpeggio, I'd now place all 4 variations in one rack, and map them so that turning macro one switches between these patches while also turning off the other 3 vst instances to conserve CPU power. The rack would have a suffix of a plus sign (+) at the end to denote that this particular rack has this functionality.

The handy thing here is that now, instead of picking one by replacing the previously loaded patch, you can now easily and instantly switch between these versions while the song is playing to either choose a favourite or modulate between them as the song progresses, recording these changes. I'm slightly more excited about this workflow then I should be, but there you go.

It can really liven up some parts by automating patch variations - nothing extreme necessarily, just shifts in timbre/character etc.

EDIT: I've finished grouping quite a few of my patches now like this, and I'm pleased to say it works very very well. Better than expected. Loads quickly and the workflow is fluid. I would hate having 128 instances/patches in a single rack, but just a handful - between 2 and 10 or so variations of a single patch - makes a lot of sense to me.

[Citizen]

Another great tip.

Again, I know working the best way to go about these things only comes from hard-won trial and error – so I thank you for sharing your insights.

I know when I did my Maschine library organisation, I took me three revisions of my tagging strategy to work out the best way to categorise everything – so having this infer ahead of diving in is priceless!

[Tarekith]

Ted - How long do you end up sticking with workflows like this once you set them up? Everytime I set up a system like this for a controller, within a couple weeks I start finding ways I think I could improve things, which means revisiting all that work. It definitely helps with a couple tracks, but after that I start getting to the point where it feels like I'm spending more time fine-tuning the all the prep work (or doing it over, ungh) versus making music.

Do you tend to just force yourself to keep things in a fixed state for a few months once it's all prepped?

[tedlogan]

That's a good question Tarekith...

Many times I've had exactly that with organising (not just music stuff) - all that work, and then when all is said and done, I don't really stick to it.

I've tried various ones prior to this one, but the instrument and audio rack workflow (my drumracks are a mess) I've been sticking with for a long time now, can't quite remember. When did I buy Push? August 2013? Probably since mid 2014 or so. There was a period when I stopped using it altogether though as I was spending 100% of my time programming synth patches, but the balance has been corrected.

I have been finetuning the system of late - mainly to do with me altering the configured parameter setup for each synth. I feel I have a logical layout now that's working for me.

In a nutshell - I use it all the time while playing on Push now, and I feel my whole setup is very fluid. The combination of logical folders for racks, a consistent parameter template for each VST, and "clusters" of patches within a single rack hits the nail on the head for me.

[Tarekith]

Cool man, thanks for letting me know.

I think part of my problem is having this innate need to make things as fine-tuned as possible, like it's going to greatly increase my productivity if I can get it "just right". Probbaly a case of needing to just let things be and get on with it

[tedlogan]

No worries.

Yeah, I can get obsessive about finetuning stuff as well, also thinking "man, it's gonna be AWESOME and so will my music be", and then it's not of course.

But I jam constantly nowadays anyway (realy addicted to it now), and the finetuned setup is proving to work just great. I think a weekend or so of prepwork is worth it, but only if you already enjoy jamming/recording stuff. If one is in a rut, all this organising feels like a waste of time.

[tedlogan]

ahhh but I remember now Tarekith - you like trying out lots of controllers, I didn't properly read your post. I can see how the workflow setup would fall by the wayside. although many things mentioned in this thread are controller-independent.

I will stick to Push for a very long time (unless mk2 comes out), which further motivates me to set everything up for the long haul. It's everything I need (though I wish it had a separate pitchwheel for more modulation in real-time and expression pedal inputs).

[Tarekith]

I wouldn't say I LIKE it, but they do seem to rotate through here often